Police Persucution - Plates and Pipes - READ THIS!
 

Thought I'd tell you about what the money-collecting gits of Perthshire police are up to. I was merrily trundling along a rural road on a nice sunny day, minding my own business and actually travelling at the speed limit (unusual for me!). I was kitted out in sensible old-git gear and clearly riding properly.

I rounded a corner to find a panda car parked up and a police man waving me in. He had no speed gun. He told me that because of the number of biker deaths in the area, they were stopping every biker "for a quick chat". He then looked over my bike and insisted on seeing the e4 road-legal stamp on my obviously original exhaust. Then it happened - he got a ruler out of his pocket and measured the letters on my plate (which is small but by no means a ****-take). "Ah - you're plate is below legal size - that's a £30 fine.". No discussion, no chance to be let off with a caution, despite everything else being absolutely OK, despite knowing that I had been riding a bike for 20 years continuously, despite knowing I had no points on my licence and despite knowing I haven't had an accident for 10 years.

I quizzed him some more and they had two cars parked in various places with 2 patrol men in each standing there all day doing nothing but stop bikes. They were not trying to catch speeders, they were not even looking at cars - just pipes and plates. How is having the right plate going to change my chances of being killed?

I think this is an utter disgrace and waste of police time. Yes my plate was illegal but I am now left complete disrespect for the police who are clearly doing it for money.

One question - can they stop people without reason? If not, can I appeal saying they had no reason to stop me (which they certainly did not).

:nomore:

...because the camera couldn't read your small plate by any chance?? :wink: :lol:

I have a legal plate but unmarked can so I guess I would have caught a fine too - I just can't understand the plate thing if the letters are legible. The chav mobiles with their blocked italics are large but impossible to read (I know they are illegal too). It does seem a waste of police time though - doubt if you can win an appeal if they were given the OK to stop bikers to advise on safety but if that was the case they didn't keep in the spirit of the project by fining people. Worth a go

Re: Police Persucution - Plates and Pipes - READ THIS!
 

And that is the problem, more and more (mostly) law abiding people are thinking this - it is very sad and does nothing for general law abidingness in the country.

I know you can ask for a "deferred test" which means that you can elect when and where they "inspect" your bike - MAG shouted about it a couple of years back....



Road Traffic Act 1988 (c. 52)
________________________________________
SCHEDULE 2
Section 67.
Deferred Tests of Condition of Vehicles
1. Where the driver is the owner of the vehicle, he may at the time of electing that the test shall be deferred-
a. specify a period of seven days within which the deferred test is to take place, being a period falling within the next thirty days, disregarding any day on which the vehicle is outside Great Britain, and
b. require that the deferred test shall take place on premises then specified by him where the test can conveniently be carried out or that it shall take place in such area in England and Wales, being a county district or Greater London, or such area in Scotland, being an islands area or district, as he may specify at that time.
2. When the driver is not the owner of the vehicle he shall inform the examiner of the name and address of the owner of the vehicle and the owner shall be afforded an opportunity of specifying such a period, and such premises or area.
3.
1. Where under the preceding provisions of this Schedule a period has been specified within which the deferred test is to be carried out, the time for carrying it out shall be such time within that period as may be notified, being a time not earlier than two days after the giving of the notification.
2. Where no such period has been specified, the time for the carrying out of the deferred test shall be such time as may be notified, being a time not earlier than seven days after the giving of the notification.
3. Where premises have been specified under the preceding provisions of this Schedule for the carrying out of the deferred test, and the test can conveniently be carried out on those premises, it must be carried out there.
4. Where sub-paragraph (3) above does not apply, the place for carrying out the deferred test shall be such place as may be notified with the notification of the time for the carrying out of the test, and where an area has been so specified the place shall be a place in that area.
5. Notwithstanding the preceding provisions of this paragraph, the time and place for the carrying out of the deferred test may be varied by agreement between an authorised examiner and the owner of the vehicle.
6. In this paragraph-
"notified" means notified in writing to the owner of the vehicle on behalf of the Secretary of State, and
"notification" shall be construed accordingly,
and any notification under this paragraph may be given by post.
2. The owner of the vehicle must produce it, or secure its production, at the time and place fixed for the carrying out of the deferred test.
3.
1. References in this Schedule to the owner of a vehicle are references to the owner of the vehicle at the time at which the election is made under section 67(6) of this Act that the test should be deferred.
2. For the purposes of this Schedule-
a. subject to sub-paragraph (b) below, if at the time at which that election is made the vehicle is in the possession of a person under a hire-purchase agreement or hiring agreement, that person shall be deemed to be the owner of the vehicle to the exclusion of any other person,
b. if at that time the vehicle is being used under an international circulation permit, the person to whom the permit was issued shall be deemed to be the owner of the vehicle to the exclusion of any other person.
© Crown copyright 1988
This information is brought to you courtesy of MAG, the UK's largest and leading riders' rights organisation.

If stopped at the roadside ask for a 'Deferred Test' of your motorcycle, the inspection of your motorcycle can be deferred for up to 30 days and you can state when and where the inspection is to take place.
A 'Deferred Test' can only be denied if the vehicle is in a dangerous state (i.e. bald tyres or no brakes)
Things such as exhaust cans, small registration plates and headlamp covers are not sufficient grounds to class the motorcycle as 'dangerous'

You can join MAG over the phone using your credit card. Phone 0870 444 8448 for details. Alternatively write to us at MAG UK, PO Box 750, Rugby, CV21 3ZR and visit our website at www.mag-uk.org

Don't delay - join today. Single membership is £20, joint is £30

Well it's easier that catching all the escaped prisoners isn't it

I was about to say ask for a Deferred Test...

Re: Police Persucution - Plates and Pipes - READ THIS!
 

Wish I'd known about that.... :cry:

I'm under the impression that they have to have a reason to specifically stop you and that has to be because they suspect you of having done something wrong. Maybe that's not right but maybe worth a try. I didn't get any points so it's primarily the money but it's also the principle of it.

I think i might print out that deferred test thingy and carry it with me, especialy if im on the Bandit with its 'slightley' loud Art can lol

Re: Police Persucution - Plates and Pipes - READ THIS!
 

Surely you knew your number plate was illegal? I think it's fair enough. We all take liberties with the law to certain extent with regards to number plates, exhausts, speed etc (me included :wink: ). and we know we are doing it so we shouldn't whinge on when we get caught.

I'm no legal expert but Perthshire is in Scotland and they have different laws up there.You may find the deferred test does'nt exist under Scottish law,or the right to challenge why they stopped you.

Re: Police Persucution - Plates and Pipes - READ THIS!
 

Yes I did - it's not the fact that I got done for it (although it's annoying since the plate is pretty large compared with many I've seen!). It's the fact that I was stopped whilst driving safely and legally on the pretence of "having a chat" and then nabbed for the plate.

Yes yes,if we all just toed the line and did as we were told and never broke any rules and never did anything much the world would be so much better ------and very boring.
Resistance to authority is what makes us living beings.The rest is just existance. :evil: :evil: :evil:

I'll remind you of this if your bike ever get's nicked :wink:

I've been the victim of theft and other crime over the years and I know how bad that can make you feel,but I'd rather put up with a certain level of crime in society than live as an automaton in a totalitarian one with no crime.And I see stopping motorcycles doing nothing wrong and measuring their numberplates as tending towards the kind of society I'd rather not live in.

As far as I'm concerned, it's not persecution to be pulled for something you knew was wrong. I've got a small-ish plate, a dark visor and a loud can, if and when I get bothered for them I deal with the consequences of my actions.

Call it part of the price of a nice bike. Or alternatively, remember that small plates are harder to read, and therefore make it harder to trace a driver leaving the scene. It's not for speed cameras as some would like to claim, they can read small plates no problem.

Write to the local commisoner if it makes you feel any better.

Re: Police Persucution - Plates and Pipes - READ THIS!
 

The police need no reason to stop a vehicle being used on a public highway or anywhere that the public have access ie petrol station forecourt / supermarket car park.

They could be checking to ensure your vehicle & documents plus you are in order.

Bit of a pain though being stopped for a "chat" & then given fines.

Posted on another forum, if you get pulled ask if if its a "stop"- if it isn't, carry on. If it is, ask for a completed form- if they are going to waste your time,you waste theirs.

Rules of a stop the police must abide by

The above applies to England & Wales ONLY. N/A to Scotland.

The laws are different.
With regards to stop & search of a person in Scotland the forms mentioned do not exist so therefore you don't get what is technically a receipt.

In Scotland a police officer must have a reason to stop you & if you don't stop then you don't know if your committing a crime by not stopping. Follow?

:wink:

I'd have just started an argument (Without swearing due to that fun public order act you see the police throwing at everyone for the hell of it) asking them what saftey measures this is covering. Why are they not dealing with somethign more pressing? Where in the pull-over they actually wanted a chat. What that police officer knew about motorcycles etc....

Basically, caused an arugment for the hassle of pulling me over for no reason.

But if you do that then you risk them not letting you off.....

Catch 22, the Police will always win (rightly so) but the Police have a public duty to be fair which in this case (in our opinion) they were not.

Trouble with that is that they then get even more arsey and have a go at the dark visor I've got and the fact that my tax disc (all be it valid) is in my shiney new holder on my workbench in the garage rather than on my bike... :oops:

Just not worth it... :roll:

I agree with a few others on this thread. I have an illegal can and number plate, wear a dark visor and my road tax is under my seat. Plus I may exceed the speed limit on the very rare occassion. If I get done for any of these then why should I complain? It does seem pathetic to waste police man hours on these "crimes", but we know the consequences of our actions. I don't want to conform all the time. that's one of the reasons for riding a bike IMO.

Yep - I'm with you as well. I'm not bitching about the fact that I got done. I know that it's illegal. It's the fact that a police force used 4 police officers and two vehicles for an entire day ONLY for plates and pipes and ONLY on bikes on the pretence that it's going to save lives. Remember - they had no speeding equipment or pursuit capability.

1

Quote from the MAG blurb:

"If stopped at the roadside ask for a 'Deferred Test' of your motorcycle, the inspection of your motorcycle can be deferred for up to 30 days and you can state when and where the inspection is to take place.
A 'Deferred Test' can only be denied if the vehicle is in a dangerous state (i.e. bald tyres or no brakes)
Things such as exhaust cans, small registration plates and headlamp covers are not sufficient grounds to class the motorcycle as 'dangerous' "

I would assume you ask for it straight away, even if they have already started inspecting. I bet it will really p!ss them off though.......

Beggars belief. My wife had some one pull out in front of her and then does n't stop. She did n't get the plate but my sister in-law saw a car that matched my wife's description including the driver the day after, and got the registration. My wife then gave the number to the Police and they did n't even follow it up. A few weeks before they stopped my wife and accused her of my daughter not having her safety belt on, which was n't true, she panic's if she has n't got it on when you start the engine. And finally a week after they accused her of doing 50 in a 30, I tried it latter on and the most I could do was 40 as its a 150 metre uphill stretch of road with a hair pin bend at both ends (so I was incited to speed by the Police - do n't think it would stand up in court!). The copper was extremely clever as well, she came home a very unhappy lady.

I think there must be some secret government directive to ensure the public have no respect for the Police. It's working!

And if your an illegal immigrant you can do what you like!

Rant over.

In England & Wales we have PACE (Police And Criminal Evidence act) which they dont have in Scotland. The rules are a lot different in Scotland and the Police have more freedom of power.

You can be stopped by a constable in uniform for a simple document check and now because your details can be ascertained on the computer system (in many forces), you dont have to be given a producer. They DONT have to issue a stop form if you're in or on a vehicle, only on foot.

So they didn't pick up on the dark visor or lack of taxdisc? Well that's a bit sloppy, eh! That should have been another few quid in his pay packet.

See, there's always a bright side! 8)

TBH honest I think those of us (like me) who do have 'mods' and 'less than legal' apparel still can have a minor moan when we get nabbed.

Lets not deny people a whinge at what to be honest is a pretty big display of petty minded wacknery. Ok, little plate but littler and tiny are worlds apart.

Big crime do your time, push the boundries a bit or get caught out on something trivial moan on, I say.

ACTUALLY.....thinking about this more I get more annoyed. IF they are genuinely interested in reducing road deaths then education is the answer of riders seen riding poorly, and not nabbing people for little plates. Ok point it out, but this was crazy if it was safety awareness. It just alienates the law abiding. And it is persecution, IMO. But we know this.

AND....was this guy a traffic cop and therefore might know his stuff or someone without a clue who would be better placed looking for lost dogs and who therefore thinks nabbing someone for a plate is a top idea. I assume the latter. Did he have a moustache? Was he dominant for the arrogant and patronising genes? I reckon so :wink: . Oh no....he would have been in traffic if he was.

Here endeth my traffic police rant for 2006.

(sorry Fraser et al :wink: )

Fair enough moan about the pull to some degree but I dont agree its right to have a full on whinge if you knowingly get pulled with an illegal plate/can/visor. You KNOW theyre illegal. You KNOW bikers are targeted. No its not fair but its the way it is. :(

But whats missing here is the obvious failure of the attitude test. Because every copper thats pulled me over has let me off. And I know plenty of people in that category too. No offence to the thread starter intended, or any insinuation that his attitude was bad etc etc, but ime attitude can make a big difference.

PS. If you get 2 pulls on your plate, you can find it being withdrawn by DVLA now. And Im presuming also invalidates your insurance.

How do you know, where you there?

I think we should assume the plod failed the attitude test rather than an SV riding compadre with 20 years experience.

Because there was absolutely no evidence, perhaps? :roll:

For many of us this is possibly a good thing 8-[

Woa hang on one sec.... The policeman produces a ruler to inspect the size of the letters and only then declares the plate illegal?

I would have had to point out this fact (after he fined me), surely that is not in the spirit of things? He was stopped regarding bike safety then 'examined'.

That can not be bad rider attitude that is just bad attitude from the police.

Lyn - shoot me down if you like but getting off a fine with a caution could be attitude, the policemans frame of mind at the time or even a cheeky smile from a female bike rider :P All policemen are men after all :lol: More policewomen please :lol: (actually scrap that last bit women can be very vindictive when they want).

Chris

That may be true, but we will never know because they never followed it up. Probably because it would have cost too much, as they would have needed to get forensic evidence from the paint left on his seriously pranged car! Amazing he could drive off from my wife's description. It just amazed me the Police were n't more interested, as the next person might not be so lucky, especially if it's a bike.

Ah...you never said there was impact. I thought it was juts a nasty piece of driving observed.

Can someone explain to me why dark visors are illegal ?
But on the other hand you're allowed sunglasses & also the Schuberth S1 with the sun shield pull down is legal... ?

My Dark Visor has "Daytime use only" on it. (BMW Sportintegral)

The very fact you can play the 'Deferred Test' game makes a mockery of the law.
So, you can be sure I'll be using it when i eventually get tugged. :lol:

I have a loud can and smaller-than-the-average small plate. (An order mistake on my part, but i'll be damned if I'm gonna get another slightly bigger but still illegal one to replace it.)

If my can is illegal and they spot it when I'm stopped (and they'll have already heard it anyway :twisted: ), I can shout for a deferred test before they manage to determine it's legality. So I take the bike home, stick in the baffle and swap plates. Then present, essentially, a different bike to them. That's daft.

Do you have to give a good reason for not waiting while they check it over. You know the idea..."Bloody hell officer! Can't you see my pillion is about to have a baby!!!"

Oh yes, a big one just as well it was a Volvo (no jibes please).


PS

Sorry mastiffmat did n't mean to hijack your thread, it just struck a chord and after my wife's 3 very uninspiring encounters with the Police, just thought I would agree with your sentiment.