Policing: Does anyone share our common sense?!
 

Was prompted to write a dedicated thread for this one, seeing as I just made a passing mention to it in a reply to Cloggsy in the Pennine section. It refers to the letter in the new MCN entitled 'New Police Tactics?'.

It details the rider's belief that he has witnessed new tactics employed by police in the Helmsley area using unmarked cars to bait bikers into racing/keeping up with them. He describes an odd series of events involving a Subaru Impreza which kept playing yoyo with him, shooting off when he got close, then (due to his suspicions making him stick to the limit) dropping back down 'til he caught up. Rinse and repeat. He even mentions them apparently (he does not categorcially state but it is implied) speed through a village. He says he then got close enough to see blue lights, a hi-vis jacket on the driver and a heads-up display of some sort in the car. Go check out the paper for the full thing.

I suppose I have 2 questions, both assuming his presumptions are correct and he is not mistaken.

1. How on earth can this be legal?! Surely a police force cannot actively pursue entrapment-like policies designed to bait bikers...do we have laws concerning this or am I getting confused with the US due to Hollywood stuff?

2. Opinions come in left, right and centre from bikers supporting, with qualification, plans to improve safety in all areas: Retesting, speed cameras in identifiable black spots as opposed to cash cows, police presence to catch non-speeding offences, advanced training. It seems we are at the forefront (barring the ******s who stunt through speed cameras of course) of accepting and even supporting sensible legislation in all manner of areas. We seem to offer common sense solutions, accepting that improvement needs to be made in some areas. If people like us with a little bit of nouse can see all this, why on earth does it appear that the proportional balance is not borne out by those with the power...where are the people like 'us' working for the system and how does intelligent, pragmatic debate get won over consistently by idiots?

Sigh...I hope the letter isn't true, but I wouldn't be surprised. Just wound me up that's all, felt like venting impotent frustration :mad:

Re: Policing: Does anyone share our common sense?!
 

Three letters answers the whole question;

MCN

I read it and found it a bit odd too. I won't say I don't believe it, but I can't imagine any circumstance where a traffic cop, authorised to use an Impreza would behave as described and then attempt to use the evidence collected to launch a prosecution.

Re: Policing: Does anyone share our common sense?!
 

I can understand what the rider writing the letter means (by your description, haven't read the paper). I was sat behind an evo a few weeks ago that was behaving in a similar manner, it wouls speed off then slow down and sit behind a row of cars before speeding off again. I thought it may have been a police car since I've heard rumours of the police having 'chavved up' evos undercover. But I then started looking at how he was driving and it wasn't exactly 'professional' so shot past as he was stuck in traffic.

Re: Policing: Does anyone share our common sense?!
 

I'd be bloody disgusted if that was the case, i agree with you both- that cant surely be a legal thing to use as evidence in busting someone??

Crazy

Re: Policing: Does anyone share our common sense?!
 

There's a few ropey traffic cops around. But they are the law ;)
Maybe we should get videos on our bikes :)

Re: Policing: Does anyone share our common sense?!
 

good thinking batman

Re: Policing: Does anyone share our common sense?!
 

just out run the C8nts in traffic, easy to lose an Evo!!! go onto fast busy roads where bikes can get past and a car cant.

Also get a good enough lawyer and you can claim you were intimidated and fled for your own safty stating that you thought the driver was putting your life at risk (which they are really)

the coppers case would collapse in court.

but i have to say i like all copers i am married to one, so im a good boy and never race on the highway!!:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Re: Policing: Does anyone share our common sense?!
 

Does your other half know the pace involved on the North Wales ride? :p

Personally (and probably due to living in North Wales), I can spot marked police cars miles away (the other night in the dark I clocked one from around 800m away). Unmarked ones a little closer.

Yes, I've still been caught out being a little "cheeky" but I take that as a gamble I take daily.

At the end of the day, I'm in control of my vehicle, if I'm baited into racing on the public road, then get caught, my fault for being stupid.

Re: Policing: Does anyone share our common sense?!
 

No she thinks it was a nice gentle ride, not!! she knows what i get up to on the bike LOL

But i get my own back when i am in the car with her i am like, do you realse its a 30 and you are doing 32 etc etc really winds her up LOL

what would your collegues in traffic say?? ha ha

Re: Policing: Does anyone share our common sense?!
 

I remember years ago reading columns in the Sunday Express written by John Junor in which he had a similar story to tell, ie. police driving aggressively in order to provoke similar behaviour in civvy motorists. He claimed to have been bullied and intimidated by a police driver in an attempt to goad him into reacting.

Re: Policing: Does anyone share our common sense?!
 

Traffic cops wouldn't be able to use the video evidence but what's to say that they would claim it wasn't recording and both give evidence saying that they saw ya going fast and gave chase???

You can use the "I believed my safety was at risk" argument as I have used it before. I was being followed by 2 blokes in an unmarked 2 litre sierra in my 1.3 astra (many years ago I may add), I had my suspisions it was the police but wasn't prepared to take that chance as I was on my own so I booted it. Lost em and they had to call in 2 marked units to give chase. As soon as I saw the blue lights I pulled over and there was nothing they could do....... except strip my car and accuse me of being a drug dealer and a car theif just because of who I went to school with 4 years earlier..... oh, and they ran my battery flat and left me stranded!!!!

Still, I had the pleasure of outdriving 2 of her majestys finest in a quicker car, guess they were scared of corners!!!!

I'm a little sceptical about SOME police oficers, but I've learn a fair bit about how to deal with them too! :-)

Re: Policing: Does anyone share our common sense?!
 

I believe it is called entrapment. It is illegal and evidence gained as a result cannot be used as part of a prosecution.

Now where's my bullet cams?

Re: Policing: Does anyone share our common sense?!
 

For this to work, you need to go to a police station straight afterwards (if not during) and report the incident (better still, claim you didn't believe they were real cops).

A friend was chased by under cover police (no blue lights) cross town. He was going hell for leather (speeding massively) and trying to lose them, but they kept up. Eventually he pulled over on a main road (it was night, but there were still people about). He confronted them, only to find they were police. They had been tailing him because the car park he had been in was often used for drug dealing and he had been seen talking to someone (innocently as it happend). Quite why they followed him in this manner without a blue light is unclear, but he got let off with an informal caution (no paperwork). They advised him that he ought to go the station next time a suspicious car followed him.

Re: Policing: Does anyone share our common sense?!
 

I have recently been involved myself in a similar incident in Lincoln. I was being followed very very closely by an unmarked red Octavia VRS, so like you do I thought I would give it a squirt and get away from him. I was consequently pulled over. The police officer then asked me to tell him how fast I was going as he didn't have a camera in his vehicle, at which point I smiled politely and told him I was doing no more than the limit. He was in the car on his own I might point out. He was blatantly trying to bait me into speeding and then get me to admit it so eh could give me a ticket. Fair enough I was speeding, I have no arguments with that but I do not ride everywhere like a lunatic and just wanted to get this clown off my ****. So just as everyone knows there is a RED OCTAVIA VRS UNMARKED IN LINCOLN. Keep your wits about you and do not admit anything unless you know they have proof!

Re: Policing: Does anyone share our common sense?!
 

In a situation like that (and I get people tailgaiting me every time I'm on the A55), I flash brake lights rapidly. This is my way of saying "look, back off" not "I'm standing on the brakes so you'd best slow down or you'll hit me."

If that doesn't have the desired effect, I'll happily find a car doing the speed limit in the left lane, and match their speed in the right lane. P*sses people off no end that does! When I'm doing this, I ride in a lower gear so that if they get too close behind me I can squirt some juice into the cylinders & be gone. A copper wouldn't (I hope) get close enough to catch the rear end of the bike, a w**ker might.

I'll also turn around as I'm riding along to face them and gesticulate a little if I'm feeling playful. :oops:

They flash their headlights at me, I flash my brake lights at them. Can be quite an entertaining light show at times. :rolleyes:

Seriously though, if someone is tailgaiting, leave adequate space in front of you so that you can slow down safely, taking into account the fact that the numpty behind you could well rear end you. If you don't have to hit the brakes hard, there's less chance of them hitting you. If you have to slow down to open a gap in front of you, well, so be it. If they want to come past, they will do. If they're p*ssed off when they come past you, they'll drive agressively past and give you a wide birth automatically just because they want to get past you. :thumright:

Re: Policing: Does anyone share our common sense?!
 

This sort of baiting used to be regular police behaviour back in the 70s and 80s.They got some serious stick for it when a few "influential"types found themselves on the wrong end of it and it seemed to die down,but it would not surprise me one bit if they were still indulging in it from time to time.Especially if their nick targets were a bit down.

Re: Policing: Does anyone share our common sense?!
 

I don't think I have ever had a police car baiting me, but I know I have had some d*ckheads trying it. My response has always been to slow right the way down and stay in the middle of the road, this has caused the d*ckhead to either try overtaking or using his horn continuously ( and also a lot of swearing by them )
I am the type of person that will speed, but on my terms. I will not be baited by anyone.
I know it's easy to be baited, but i'm always aware that I may get into serious trouble and that makes me behave.
Off the bike it's different, bloody stupid then:smt076 .
Anyway i'm not really an experienced rider so it would be stupid of me to try and race.

Re: Policing: Does anyone share our common sense?!
 

Something I always tell myself when someone indicates left for me to overtake is "I decide when I overtake, not you!"

Re: Policing: Does anyone share our common sense?!
 

That is a classic one Baph, you never know whether they are going to do something stupid to you.
Example opening their door to scare you!!
Had that done to me once, hit it with my foot as I went passed it, heard a yelp and I was gone:-D .

Re: Policing: Does anyone share our common sense?!
 

Em, they have such things as lights & sirens that tend to make the traffic melt away, as good as filtering.
I should know, I got caught by Police in London traffic & they had a standing (on the pavement) start.