New C & S - Rivetting Question...
 

Hi,

I fitted new C & S today - the chain snapped last weekend, and got recovered home. Bought the parts from B & C Express as well as a chain rivetter (Whale), and had a go today. Following both the SV Workshop manual and the Haynes Techical Bike Book I managed ok. The only question I have is the rivets. Using to tool I managed to mushroom the heads ok, but as the rivets have thinned out around the edges, they have cracked. The Haynes book says cracked rivets should be replaced, but as it is so thin around the edge, and as there seems to be a good purchase by the rest of the rivet, I was wondering what you thought...have put some pics below:

Should I ride the bike (carefully) to my bike shop (20 miles) and ask them to replace the rivets / link? Or am I worrying about nowt?



http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/8...0292qj7.th.jpg

and here is the end of the rivet tool, which makes contact with the rivet - the 'V' shape causes the rivet to thin out towards the edge - maybe Ive over-hit it??

http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/5...0293af5.th.jpg

Ta peeps,

BB

Re: New C & S - Rivetting Question...
 

I don't know- but do you have any pics of the Westy? :)

Re: New C & S - Rivetting Question...
 

Indeed - pre resto:

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/2...ty01mz2.th.jpg

Not finished yet - hopefully bringing it down in a few weeks to finish it off - its been painted in one colour, VW sea blue, and lots of chrome to go on, plus a 2 ltr T4 engine pushing out 165bhp...interesting on the std drum brakes and no servo!

Re: New C & S - Rivetting Question...
 

De-railed a bit, but could do with some advice on the chain front - anyone? Not sure if I'm risking my life (again) if I go out on it tomorrow?

Ta!

BB.

Re: New C & S - Rivetting Question...
 

That's lovely :) My inexpert opinion is that the chain's probably fine- if you hammer any metal thin, it'll crack. The factory ones don't actually go that thin for exactly that reason. I'm assuming that the chain's not pinched though, and tbh I suspect it might be a littl, since the metal there's so thin it'd probably have bent in a bit. This is one of the few jobs I don't do myself, I just fire on a split link until I can get a pro to do it.

. However, Sid Squid will no doubt be along in a minute, he's both a knowledgable chap and total bus geek, so I'm sure he'll be delighted :cool:

Re: New C & S - Rivetting Question...
 

thanks for the advice. I made sure that the links weren't tight between every few hits - and the rivetted link seems to have the same amount of resistance as the others. The gaps between the side plates and the links (where the o rings are) seems the same by eye too..

Ideally I would have got a master link then ridden to my bike shop - though B & C said they dont supply them with chains anymore (apart from the smaller stuff), so I was stuck with rivetting it myself...

Ta,

BB

Re: New C & S - Rivetting Question...
 

I'm no expert but...

I have only riveted one chain (my current one) with the help of a friend who's done loads. So I took a look at mine for comparison. The only real difference I can see is my rivets have a more circular appearance to them with a good circle visible in the center of them.

Now apologies if this is the teaching of egg sucking but did you rotate the impact bit of the riveter after each hit? This is what I was taught so thats really a question to all on technique. After each hit I gave it a small rotation say 45 degrees. Is this correct or whats the best technique to riveting? (Sorry for the minor derail BB).

Re: New C & S - Rivetting Question...
 

Hiya mate - that bike of yours starting ok now?

Yeay - the pics in Haynes showed a different type of rivet - more like yours, with a recessed circle in the centre of the rivet - it must be down to the shape of the tool used.

Yeah - I made sure that I rotated the impact - well, I didnt need to cos after every time you hit it, the tool jumps up and round, so its not hitting the same place twice.

No probs for the de-rail, this is all new to me...

S*d it - its sunny - I'm of out to play!
BB.

Re: New C & S - Rivetting Question...
 

Oddly it was fine until I went out yesterday, and rolled the bike forward to find the chain rivet ;)

Possible, but I think it was a 'V' shape as well. It was a borrowed tool so I can't check.

Re: New C & S - Rivetting Question...
 

Morning all.
Definitely not fine, PM sent as requested.

Cheers.

Re: New C & S - Rivetting Question...
 

Right - Managed to get the old rivet off the chain, and a new one supplied from B & C fitted. After guidance from the extremely helpful Mr. Spannerman, I have managed to get this done - much happier!!

http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/1...0295ph6.th.jpg

http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/4...0297vr8.th.jpg

http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/5...0299ab0.th.jpg

Thanks for all your input!!

Billy.

Re: New C & S - Rivetting Question...
 

What a useful thread! Can you tell us what you did wrong? I guess it is in the rivetting technique?

Re: New C & S - Rivetting Question...
 

I think you mean "what a rivetting thread"....?

I'll get me coat!

Well, I didn't realise that the rivet should be knurled over at 90 degree angles - to give the squarish shape in the pics above. What I had done was to just hammer like hell, and rounded it off - also splitting the rivet in the process.

Now the rivet looks similar to the others on the chain, and more importantly, due to the help form people on this forum, am happy that it has been done safely...so I can get on and ride...

Would you believe it, the sun is just coming out!!

Billy.

Re: New C & S - Rivetting Question...
 

That has GOT to be one of the worst puns I've seen on here for a long time:D

Get out in that sun!

Cheers.

Re: New C & S - Rivetting Question...
 

I know it's already solved, but it looked like the first one you hammered the sh*t out of it until it was flat, like your metalwork teacher taught you in CDT at school :P

Looking at the shape of the other rivets, it looks like it's a couple of taps with a good weight one side, rotate 90 degrees and same again, just to get the 4 edges knocked out properly and the main body of the rivet untouched.

Just my 2p worth :D

Re: New C & S - Rivetting Question...
 

No it wasnt flat - look at the picture of the tool (no, not me!), and you will see that the V shape means you cant hammer it flat. What I had done is hammer it all the way around, not at 90 degree intervals.

I think the bit you said in the second paragraph is what I said in mine - :) - Spannerman set me straight..

Re: New C & S - Rivetting Question...
 

Bloomin 'eck...sorry to drag this thread back up....but..

went out to look at the bike the other day, though I'd check the rivet link I put on a few months ago, as well as other checks as was thinking about going for a ride...and I found that one of the 'O' rings between the sideplate and the link was missing?!?!?

The rivet is still ok, looks like nothing has moved - dont think the sideplate was on too tight as I checked the measurements of others with a set of verniers...just to make sure that the side plate wasn't 'pinching' the seal..

But now I'm missing an o-ring - so got to get on the phone to B & C and se if the can send me (yet another) rivet link...will have to cut this one off and replace it...

Just wondering if this has happened to anyone else? Wondered what I could have done wrong? The o-ring was definately there when I put it on in October, and dont recall seeing it missing till the other day....:confused:

Bummer!

Re: New C & S - Rivetting Question...
 

My guess is that the bottom image in post #11 shows the flared edges of the riveted pin heads not actually touching the chain link plate, and the plate appears free to move outward until it could touch the flared ends of the pins.

Since the side plates are typically a press fit onto the pins, you probably didn't notice or become concerned with the gap between the two parts because it probably didn't move while having the chain in your hands.

I'd imagine that the gap on the other side of the link plate (on the X-ring side) got large enough so that the rubber X-ring was no longer adequately squashed, wasn't making a seal, and eventually got all tore up and dropped out like a hippie on drugs.

If, in fact, the side plate had not actually moved as compared to where it was when you first did it, then, that's a good question.

Re: New C & S - Rivetting Question...
 

I think you are right - I cant be 100% sure that the sideplate hasnt moved, as I didnt make a note of the exact width.:smt075

Sounds like a reasonable explaination....must try harder next time...lol