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What does the word "reasonable" mean? (Employment

I'm currently in a state of apoplectic rage.

I'm working the last week of my notice this week at a company whos work sometimes involves night work, for which I've been doing 2 nights a week for the bast 3-4 months.

Yesterday (monday) I was told I was only going to be doing 1 night this week (wednesday) and saw no harm in going out for a (lateish) evening last night.

So, bearing in mind I was already a little tired, I wasn't really happy when I was told I was needed for night shift tonight (tuesday) and said as much.

So a few mins ago the boss storms in ranting and raving demanding to know why I won't do a night shift. I explained why, and he basically said he doesnt give a ****, it's my fault for being tired, and that it's not his problem that I'll have to drive home at exhausted at 4am (after doing 8:30am to 5pm in the office). I told him that he should have given more notice then, and that being given less than 12 hours notice is unreasonable.

At this point he explained to me that legally what he was asking me to do was reasonable, because after being here for 2 and a half years I should know that's the kind of work we do here, that I was held to contract (dispite the fact that in 2 and a half years I've never even signed a contract!) and that an employment tribunal would agree if I wanted to contest it :shock:

Personally, I don't believe him, but knowledge is power as they say, so would be nice to hear from someone (Jabba?) who knows what the score is.

He gave me the option of doing the night shift, or leaving at the end of the day and (as it's my last week)not coming back (and not being paid for those days). In the end, being that it's not the end of the world if I do have to work, I decided to do it anyway rather than call his bluff or lose the money.

If you're leaving soon, ensure that you leave something smelly behind in a well concealed place!! :lol: Revenge is everything!! :lol:

Re: What does the word "reasonable" mean? (Employm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flamin_Squirrel

I'm currently in a state of apoplectic rage.

I'm working the last week of my notice this week at a company whos work sometimes involves night work, for which I've been doing 2 nights a week for the bast 3-4 months.

Yesterday (monday) I was told I was only going to be doing 1 night this week (wednesday) and saw no harm in going out for a (lateish) evening last night.

So, bearing in mind I was already a little tired, I wasn't really happy when I was told I was needed for night shift tonight (tuesday) and said as much.

So a few mins ago the boss storms in ranting and raving demanding to know why I won't do a night shift. I explained why, and he basically said he doesnt give a sh*t, it's my fault for being tired, and that it's not his problem that I'll have to drive home at exhausted at 4am (after doing 8:30am to 5pm in the office). I told him that he should have given more notice then, and that being given less than 12 hours notice is unreasonable.

At this point he explained to me that legally what he was asking me to do was reasonable, because after being here for 2 and a half years I should know that's the kind of work we do here, that I was held to contract (dispite the fact that in 2 and a half years I've never even signed a contract!) and that an employment tribunal would agree if I wanted to contest it :shock:

Personally, I don't believe him, but knowledge is power as they say, so would be nice to hear from someone (Jabba?) who knows what the score is.

He gave me the option of doing the night shift, or leaving at the end of the day and (as it's my last week)not coming back (and not being paid for those days). In the end, being that it's not the end of the world if I do have to work, I decided to do it anyway rather than call his bluff or lose the money.

Go home, sleep well then speak to a lawyer in the morning about an unfair dismissal case.

It IS un anreasonable notice period, and he IS liable if you have to drive when tired.

Also I believe if you have done a full days work it is illegal for you to work the rest - European Working Directive.

Stand your ground - its only 3 days wages to put on hold until you get your legal payout.

In fact, assuming that he doesn't own the company, go to his boss and discuss this.

Doesn't matter if it gets ****ty if you are leaving - does it?

David

Burn the place down tonight!! :twisted:

Re: What does the word "reasonable" mean? (Employm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoulKiss

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flamin_Squirrel

I'm currently in a state of apoplectic rage.

I'm working the last week of my notice this week at a company whos work sometimes involves night work, for which I've been doing 2 nights a week for the bast 3-4 months.

Yesterday (monday) I was told I was only going to be doing 1 night this week (wednesday) and saw no harm in going out for a (lateish) evening last night.

So, bearing in mind I was already a little tired, I wasn't really happy when I was told I was needed for night shift tonight (tuesday) and said as much.

So a few mins ago the boss storms in ranting and raving demanding to know why I won't do a night shift. I explained why, and he basically said he doesnt give a sh*t, it's my fault for being tired, and that it's not his problem that I'll have to drive home at exhausted at 4am (after doing 8:30am to 5pm in the office). I told him that he should have given more notice then, and that being given less than 12 hours notice is unreasonable.

At this point he explained to me that legally what he was asking me to do was reasonable, because after being here for 2 and a half years I should know that's the kind of work we do here, that I was held to contract (dispite the fact that in 2 and a half years I've never even signed a contract!) and that an employment tribunal would agree if I wanted to contest it :shock:

Personally, I don't believe him, but knowledge is power as they say, so would be nice to hear from someone (Jabba?) who knows what the score is.

He gave me the option of doing the night shift, or leaving at the end of the day and (as it's my last week)not coming back (and not being paid for those days). In the end, being that it's not the end of the world if I do have to work, I decided to do it anyway rather than call his bluff or lose the money.

My biggest gripe is that it seems he's acting little better than a play ground bully, and that he'll perceive that he's 'won', even though in reality it's not that much of a hardship to work, so I'll do it simply because I can't be arsed with the aggrivation of the alternatives.

Ring in "sick" just before your shift starts.

Re: What does the word "reasonable" mean? (Employm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoulKiss

Also I believe if you have done a full days work it is illegal for you to work the rest - European Working Directive.

Aye, this kind of thing is covered by the European working directive. Theres now all sorts of rules involving rest periods every so many hours worked over x number of hours you must have y number of hours rest.

I also think that when a night shift is involved you are entitled to more rest.

As for contract. Actually IIRC the law states that if you have no contract but continue to work under a set of working conditions for more than 6 months this becomes contractual even if nothing is written down or signed.

If it were me I would ensure I had my reference and that anything I did didnt jepordise my reference and then leave the company and stuff the 3 days pay and go home and rest and then you'll be in a better frame of mind to start your next job.

Re: What does the word "reasonable" mean? (Employm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flamin_Squirrel

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoulKiss

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flamin_Squirrel

I'm currently in a state of apoplectic rage.

angry post

sensible stuff

Doesn't matter if it gets sh*tty if you are leaving - does it?

David

In that case you'd better get down to your local Taj Mahal or Bombay Spice or Tesco's all in one meal deal for two hot & spicy like my women so that you can leave behind your own special calling card!! :lol: :lol:

I'm guessing you need a reference from the company? I hope this isn't the person who will be giving the reference?

If possible, I would suggest going higher in the company. The arrangement was for Wednesday night so I don't think moving it forward a night and then not telling you until the same day is fair or reasonable, but I don't know about the law bit though I'm afraid.

Re: What does the word "reasonable" mean? (Employm

Quote:

Originally Posted by fizzwheel

As for contract. Actually IIRC the law states that if you have no contract but continue to work under a set of working conditions for more than 6 months this becomes contractual even if nothing is written down or signed.

This is the kind of info I was after, good stuff. I guess this is a valuable lesson - be very careful before agreeing to work outside the parameters of contract for any length of time unless you're sure you want to carry on indefinitely. Although a notice period for working a night shift as Soul mentions might nullify the obligation to work anyway.