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Red Herring · 09-03-10, 05:47 AM

The copper will need to show that part of your vehicle went over the stop line after your traffic light had turned red, or amber and that you could have stopped safely. The later will be extremely hard for him to prove and is unlikely to be run by CPS, it's the former that would normally get you. It's important to know that he should be able to testify as to the colour of your traffic light, and be able to do so directly. He shouldn't be allowed to get away with "well my light was amber therefore his must have been red", although we have been able to use this kind of evidence if we then go on to say that we have checked the traffic lights through several sequences and this particular lights only goes amber this time after such and such a light has gone red (but we're talking a significant time period here, not a question of a second or two). He will also need to be able to say where your vehicle was when the light went to amber/red. Most of the time you don't notice this unless you are specifically looking for it, ie normally you are sitting at your light, it goes green and then you notice a vehicle still crossing ahead of you....

Now the reality. If you didn't argue much with him at the roadside it's very unlikely he will have recorded the evidence correctly. An ATS (Automatic Traffic Signal) offence is relatively small fry to most coppers and they tend to get really sloppy around them. The ticket he gave you is a £60 fine and three points, it's an easy out if you did do it. If you didn't and go to court the evidence of one officer is enough to convict provided they are credible and did it properly. If they convict you expect the three points and a substantially bigger fine, plus the usual costs. Before you decide go back to the junction and sit where he was and look at the lights. Watch a few sequences, ask yourself if you were the copper could you put a reasonable case across from where you are? Take some photos, especially showing what kind of a view the copper would have had of your traffic lights.

It's easy for us to sit here and say fight it, we're not the ones taking the day off work to go to court and risking our money, but if the copper is wrong you owe it to everybody to fight him. This is all sounding horribly familiar......

09-03-10, 05:47 AM	#6
Red Herring Member Mega Poster Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 2,708	Re: Traffic offence - Org's thoughts? The copper will need to show that part of your vehicle went over the stop line after your traffic light had turned red, or amber and that you could have stopped safely. The later will be extremely hard for him to prove and is unlikely to be run by CPS, it's the former that would normally get you. It's important to know that he should be able to testify as to the colour of your traffic light, and be able to do so directly. He shouldn't be allowed to get away with "well my light was amber therefore his must have been red", although we have been able to use this kind of evidence if we then go on to say that we have checked the traffic lights through several sequences and this particular lights only goes amber this time after such and such a light has gone red (but we're talking a significant time period here, not a question of a second or two). He will also need to be able to say where your vehicle was when the light went to amber/red. Most of the time you don't notice this unless you are specifically looking for it, ie normally you are sitting at your light, it goes green and then you notice a vehicle still crossing ahead of you.... Now the reality. If you didn't argue much with him at the roadside it's very unlikely he will have recorded the evidence correctly. An ATS (Automatic Traffic Signal) offence is relatively small fry to most coppers and they tend to get really sloppy around them. The ticket he gave you is a £60 fine and three points, it's an easy out if you did do it. If you didn't and go to court the evidence of one officer is enough to convict provided they are credible and did it properly. If they convict you expect the three points and a substantially bigger fine, plus the usual costs. Before you decide go back to the junction and sit where he was and look at the lights. Watch a few sequences, ask yourself if you were the copper could you put a reasonable case across from where you are? Take some photos, especially showing what kind of a view the copper would have had of your traffic lights. It's easy for us to sit here and say fight it, we're not the ones taking the day off work to go to court and risking our money, but if the copper is wrong you owe it to everybody to fight him. This is all sounding horribly familiar......