Front suspension too hard!!! Curvy - SV650.org

03-09-06, 10:13 AM

I bought my lovely SV off an owner from this fine site about two and a half months ago and have currently covered around 3.5K miles.

The rear suspension had been wound right up and is spot on, the front springs have been replaced with 'uprated fork internals' (pretty sure they are ohlins springs).

The first thing I noticed was the hard front suspension, I have never ridden a standard curvy sv, having now covered some decent mileage I am fairly used to the suspension set up.

The bike is on M1 Sportec metzelers and It rides fine at 60+ on sweepers I can crank it over, but on slower bends I have less confidence, I am within about 8mm of chicken strip on the rear so am leaning it over ok.

I have no confidence in anything other than perfectly dry roads at less than 60 as I say at higher speeds its fine. I am happy with the back setup but the front seems to skip accross the tarmac. The front tyre looks very 'dimpled' round the sides and the tread at the sides has worn at slightly different height.

I am sure this is due to the front suspension, it only feels about 10% too hard, any idea what oil would normally be used in this conversion and which I could try to soften it up. I do not want to revert to standard soft shocks, or spend masses of money on my bike.

Any ideas? Please help!

Biker Biggles · 03-09-06, 10:24 AM

Could be too much preload (too little static sag)or there could be too heavy weight oil in them making them move too slowly over bumps.(Or too much oil)It also depends how heavy you are,but I think Ohlins SV springs are not particularly hard.
Try a search on this site,as there has been plenty of threads on this.

03-09-06, 10:44 AM

I'm not a lightweight probably about 14 stone, i'm thinking its a heavy oil but would people normally use 20w with these springs? If so should I try 15w, as I guess 10w is standard ish and possibly a bit too soft and maybe not too compatible with uprated springs?

TSM · 03-09-06, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clio172

I'm not a lightweight probably about 14 stone, i'm thinking its a heavy oil but would people normally use 20w with these springs? If so should I try 15w, as I guess 10w is standard ish and possibly a bit too soft and maybe not too compatible with uprated springs?

5w is what it comes with from factory most people put between 10-15w oil in.

Have you measured the sag for the bike rear & front?

03-09-06, 12:51 PM

I'm about 15st out of my gear (not pretty), have standard springs with a little preload to get the sag right on my naked curvy. The 15W oil I have in there at present makes the front end too hard on the compression stroke when hitting bigger road 'imperfections'. I've also got slightly less oil in each leg than standard (10mm less height from memory) to improve the usual ride - helps the damping kick in later. This works fine until you get something causing a greater fork compression. That's when it feels rock hard. One of the problems you will find is that the same weight oil from two different manufacturers may be different viscosities, given that the rating covers a range. I'm going to try a grade lighter soon (been using Motul recently) with the lower oil height. I can always add more; taking it out is harder...

northwind · 03-09-06, 02:06 PM

The Ohlins springs are .80, I think- which isn't very stiff at all, not for your weight. I ran them with 15W, and I'm 11st- it was just a little too heavy, I'd've gone to 12.5 if I'd kept those forks. Fork oil's not expensive, so if you have the capacity to change it, it might be worth just doing that to see if it helps. Checking the air gap would be sensible too, people keep on getting that wrong.

03-09-06, 03:39 PM

I don't think i've actually got any front suspension!
If I hit a series of bumps going into a corner its more a case of trying to make it round rather than taking the correct line, it doesn't really seem to soak the bumps up, more hop across them!

TSM - how do I measure the sag front and rear?

I do not believe I have preload adjustment as its a 2000 half faired model.

Northy - TBH I think i'd need to get a mechanic to do it, i've got no way of getting me forks off easily and i'm not sure i've the guts to try the garden cane method!
I think I will try 12.5W then from the comments I've had, how do I measure the air gap, what should it be? cheers

Having said all this i ran the metzelers at 35F & 37R earlier and the front end seemed more planted and I have a bit more confidence in it, could just be due to the dry roads. I still maintain that the front's too hard though. I wish I had tried a standard SVS really!

northwind · 03-09-06, 03:57 PM

Whenever I've checked oil levels, I've done it with the forks out of the bike, not sure how you'd do it otherwise. You've got to support the front of the bike, anyway, so if you don't fancy doing hte oil it's a non-starter I'm afraid.

I'd find out how much your dealer will charge, and compare that against het price of a front yoke stand, or better an ABBA or NWS stand- that is, if you fancy working on it yourself.

03-09-06, 05:41 PM

When I got my curvy it had had Racetech 85s put in it, I hated the ride, it sounds just like what you are experiencing. I actually ended up getting some 80 springs. Also my preload was set much. With the 80springs, correct preload and 15w oil the front end was vastly improved. Remember, these bikes still have basic suspension, so don’t expect miracles, there are still limitations, but it was so much more confidence inspiring.

Do you have a rear paddock stand??? Use of that and a trolley jack will make the front accessible. Your other option is to recruit a beefcake mate to pull it up on its sidestand.

I am not sure about the ohlins, but the Racetech springs require you to cut an appropriate length of tube to get the preload right. If someone was to assemble with the standard length then the preload will be way out.

Preload will have the biggest effect at slow speed as it basically adjusts the point (size bump) at which the suspension starts to move.

03-09-06, 06:34 PM

Northwind - I'm not sure yet, I may attempt it myself by removing forks, otherwise get my local garage to change the oil might try 12.5, he'll charge me about £40, it's just how many times it needs to go in to get it right! I could get him to change the oil and end up putting the same in!

Blue_SV650S - interesting thanks i guess someone could have put the tubes in without cutting them to the correct length? It is possible that they are not ohlins as I think they were installed before the previous owner got the bike so I could be wrong!

Thanks for your help everyone, at least i'll have an idea what to look for!

03-09-06, 10:13 AM	#1
clio172 Guest Posts: n/a	Front suspension too hard!!! Curvy I bought my lovely SV off an owner from this fine site about two and a half months ago and have currently covered around 3.5K miles. The rear suspension had been wound right up and is spot on, the front springs have been replaced with 'uprated fork internals' (pretty sure they are ohlins springs). The first thing I noticed was the hard front suspension, I have never ridden a standard curvy sv, having now covered some decent mileage I am fairly used to the suspension set up. The bike is on M1 Sportec metzelers and It rides fine at 60+ on sweepers I can crank it over, but on slower bends I have less confidence, I am within about 8mm of chicken strip on the rear so am leaning it over ok. I have no confidence in anything other than perfectly dry roads at less than 60 as I say at higher speeds its fine. I am happy with the back setup but the front seems to skip accross the tarmac. The front tyre looks very 'dimpled' round the sides and the tread at the sides has worn at slightly different height. I am sure this is due to the front suspension, it only feels about 10% too hard, any idea what oil would normally be used in this conversion and which I could try to soften it up. I do not want to revert to standard soft shocks, or spend masses of money on my bike. Any ideas? Please help!

03-09-06, 10:24 AM	#2
Biker Biggles Member Mega Poster Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Barnet Herts Posts: 5,071	Could be too much preload (too little static sag)or there could be too heavy weight oil in them making them move too slowly over bumps.(Or too much oil)It also depends how heavy you are,but I think Ohlins SV springs are not particularly hard. Try a search on this site,as there has been plenty of threads on this. __________________ On a clear day we stand there and look further than the ordinary eye can see.

03-09-06, 02:06 PM	#6
northwind Moderator Mega Poster Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: In the garage where I belong Posts: 17,083	The Ohlins springs are .80, I think- which isn't very stiff at all, not for your weight. I ran them with 15W, and I'm 11st- it was just a little too heavy, I'd've gone to 12.5 if I'd kept those forks. Fork oil's not expensive, so if you have the capacity to change it, it might be worth just doing that to see if it helps. Checking the air gap would be sensible too, people keep on getting that wrong. __________________ "We are the angry mob, we read the papers every day We like what we like, we hate what we hate But we're oh so easily swayed"

03-09-06, 03:57 PM	#8
northwind Moderator Mega Poster Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: In the garage where I belong Posts: 17,083	Whenever I've checked oil levels, I've done it with the forks out of the bike, not sure how you'd do it otherwise. You've got to support the front of the bike, anyway, so if you don't fancy doing hte oil it's a non-starter I'm afraid. I'd find out how much your dealer will charge, and compare that against het price of a front yoke stand, or better an ABBA or NWS stand- that is, if you fancy working on it yourself. __________________ "We are the angry mob, we read the papers every day We like what we like, we hate what we hate But we're oh so easily swayed"

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03-09-06, 10:44 AM	#3
clio172 Guest Posts: n/a	I'm not a lightweight probably about 14 stone, i'm thinking its a heavy oil but would people normally use 20w with these springs? If so should I try 15w, as I guess 10w is standard ish and possibly a bit too soft and maybe not too compatible with uprated springs?

03-09-06, 12:51 PM	#5
chazzyb Guest Posts: n/a	I'm about 15st out of my gear (not pretty), have standard springs with a little preload to get the sag right on my naked curvy. The 15W oil I have in there at present makes the front end too hard on the compression stroke when hitting bigger road 'imperfections'. I've also got slightly less oil in each leg than standard (10mm less height from memory) to improve the usual ride - helps the damping kick in later. This works fine until you get something causing a greater fork compression. That's when it feels rock hard. One of the problems you will find is that the same weight oil from two different manufacturers may be different viscosities, given that the rating covers a range. I'm going to try a grade lighter soon (been using Motul recently) with the lower oil height. I can always add more; taking it out is harder...

03-09-06, 03:39 PM	#7
clio172 Guest Posts: n/a	I don't think i've actually got any front suspension! If I hit a series of bumps going into a corner its more a case of trying to make it round rather than taking the correct line, it doesn't really seem to soak the bumps up, more hop across them! TSM - how do I measure the sag front and rear? I do not believe I have preload adjustment as its a 2000 half faired model. Northy - TBH I think i'd need to get a mechanic to do it, i've got no way of getting me forks off easily and i'm not sure i've the guts to try the garden cane method! I think I will try 12.5W then from the comments I've had, how do I measure the air gap, what should it be? cheers Having said all this i ran the metzelers at 35F & 37R earlier and the front end seemed more planted and I have a bit more confidence in it, could just be due to the dry roads. I still maintain that the front's too hard though. I wish I had tried a standard SVS really!

03-09-06, 05:41 PM	#9
Blue_SV650S Guest Posts: n/a	When I got my curvy it had had Racetech 85s put in it, I hated the ride, it sounds just like what you are experiencing. I actually ended up getting some 80 springs. Also my preload was set much. With the 80springs, correct preload and 15w oil the front end was vastly improved. Remember, these bikes still have basic suspension, so don’t expect miracles, there are still limitations, but it was so much more confidence inspiring. Do you have a rear paddock stand??? Use of that and a trolley jack will make the front accessible. Your other option is to recruit a beefcake mate to pull it up on its sidestand. I am not sure about the ohlins, but the Racetech springs require you to cut an appropriate length of tube to get the preload right. If someone was to assemble with the standard length then the preload will be way out. Preload will have the biggest effect at slow speed as it basically adjusts the point (size bump) at which the suspension starts to move.

03-09-06, 06:34 PM	#10
clio172 Guest Posts: n/a	Northwind - I'm not sure yet, I may attempt it myself by removing forks, otherwise get my local garage to change the oil might try 12.5, he'll charge me about £40, it's just how many times it needs to go in to get it right! I could get him to change the oil and end up putting the same in! Blue_SV650S - interesting thanks i guess someone could have put the tubes in without cutting them to the correct length? It is possible that they are not ohlins as I think they were installed before the previous owner got the bike so I could be wrong! Thanks for your help everyone, at least i'll have an idea what to look for!