Water for Fuel???

Interesting thing to discuss as im not all that smart, and probably people who will understand if this will work better than I can....



I thought this was another inject small amounts of water with fuel and as it burns it turn water to steam and increase Fuel economy things (that dont work effectively because they slow combustion therefore countering benefit) but this may just be different.

Bear 2 things in mind - Hydrogen in the most flamable gas on this planet
you dont need much when you think about it - as at 3000rpm you pistons are going top to bottom 3000/60 seconds =50 times a second (actually 100 because top to bottom - and back to top = 1 rev) on 4 cylinder - Or on 8 Cylinders if you are really lucky and still a gallon of petrol last an amazingly long time considering fuel IS going in 50 times a second on 4 Cylinders !!!! 200 injection of fuel a second on a 4 cylinder car !!

the output of passing an electrical current through water is Hydrogen gas on 1 electrode (most flammable gas) and oxygen (vigorously supports combustion) on the other electrode anyway this may be feasible is what i am thinking

anyhow read for your self (if this catches on - Petrol companies and the good old government tax man are going to be a little ****ed off)

http://www.water-4-fuel.com/

and less risk then a hydrogen fuel cell - as only small amount of gas produced at any 1 moment

Bullcrap. You need as much energy to create the hydrogen gas form water as you get from combusting it. So you need a big battery. The brilliant thing about petrol is its already there to be combusted, it dosnt need any high amounts of energy to convert it into a high-energy form

Matt

There are loads of theories on the splitting of water and the amount of energy needed to split it. There is loads of stuff on t'internet about this. If you have the time and the inclination it's worth having a search.

Originally Posted by alpinestarhero

Bullcrap. You need as much energy to create the hydrogen gas form water as you get from combusting it. So you need a big battery. The brilliant thing about petrol is its already there to be combusted, it dosnt need any high amounts of energy to convert it into a high-energy form

Matt

Matt you are more the scientist than I am or ever will be, however ...

Your first statement is perhaps more pertinent to hydrogen powered cars, and this I believe is their big downfall - the energy requirements required to split the hydrogen out does indeed require big batteries.

But this looks to be on a much smaller scale ...and rather than splitting the hydrogen out from "whatever cells the power is based on", it seems to be saying that the energy requirements to split hydrogen from pure H2O are a lot less and therefore viable for smaller applications.

Such an application being NOT to actually completely power a vehicle, but to simply assist in the combustion process that we are all familiar with in combustion engines, in a bid to improve fuel efficiency.

That's what I took from reading it.

However as stated, I am no scientist by any stretch of the imagination and so I don't know exactly how much energy is required to split hydrogen molecules from oxygen molecules (or the extraction of hydrogen from water ... but I do know how to extract the pee outta something/someone )

Matt is right, no matter what you do, the energy from the hydrogen and oxygen formed reacting can be no more than is used to split the water.

Also splitting pure water is actually harder than splitting water with additives, so the arguement that it is pure water which helps isnt right. Also what people consider 'pure' water generally isnt very pure at all.

Even if this did work, you would have to redesign the engine to have a separate water injector as petrol and water don't mix.

I just looked at that website! is it a joke?

HHO!

If you believe that website look at this

http://www.dhmo.org/msds/MSDS-DHMO-Kemp.pdf

James, sorry for confusion ... I really should get my terms right when it comes to technical/chemical speak (but then I am sadly lacking in that area).

Here's what the blurb on the website says:
It's very simple. You don't change your engine or computer. A quart-size (95O cc) container is placed somewhere under the hood. You fill it with DISTILLED WATER and a little bit of BAKING SODA. The device gets vacuum and electricity (12 Volts) from the engine, and produces HHO gas (Hydrogen+Oxygen). The HHO gas is supplied to the engine's intake manifold or carburetor.

I'm as sceptical as anyone to be honest.

One of those things that "sounds too good to be true" (so it probably is).
And you'll end up spending $100 just for the manuals that tell you HOW.
Then you need to join up as a member (at an additional cost of $500) just to actually get a ready-built version which you THEN have to either install yourself or get a mechanic to do!?!?

The bit that worried me was this bit tho ...

IMPORTANT: We are going to reveal to you fuel saving techniques unknown to the average mechanic - so don't go around asking "experts" who think they know everything! Instead, order these books, test the technology and then contact us with any questions you may still have. You're lucky to have found this place because what you get here are unique and little-known energy saving FACTS - discovered by experimenting, not by theory.

Hmmmm ... so they claim that this "theory" has been around for 90+ years, and yet I shouldn't go asking any "experts" and that I should "just buy the books" ... yerrrr right

Ok,

As Matt stated the energy (from the battery) used to split the water into 'HHO' (actually hydrogen and water gas, this browns gas they talk about is gibberish) is the same as the energy gained from the 'combustion'. In fact you actually lose energy due to mechanical and electrical inefficiencies in producing the electricity to charge the cars battery.

Another flaw is that the combustion of molecular hydrogen and oxygen is very different from the combustion of a liquid/soloid fuel. Normally you have liquid (petrol) plus gas (Oxygen) makes gas (lots of), giving you rapid expansion which pushes the piston. In the hydrogen (gas) and oxygen (gas) combustion the product is liquid (water) and is effectively an implosion. As an example two moles of hydrogen and one mole of oxygen (gaseous) takes up ~72 cm cubed, and the product (one mole of water) takes up ~18 mL (much less).

(for the non chemists, a mole is a unit referring to a standard number of molecules, not a furry rodent)

Thanks for that James ... I was beginning to think my car was a zoo ... what with all those "horses under the bonnet", and the "cat" in the exhaust system, and now "moles" in my fuel?!?

no worries!