sv -> sports 600

how big is the jump?
any experiencies/ advice?

How long have you been riding and how long have you had your SV?

Low down grunt is not as immediate but they handle so much better, tip in like a dream and no wobbles when you rag the **** off it exiting a corner. Wind them up and they go like stink, ripping your arms out. At least, my Ninja did.

DO NOT listen to those who say "oh but they have no midrange at all and you have to be at 11'000rpm before they even start going". It's all a load of pap. Most SS600's are fine for commuting and town riding, the only thing you may experience is wrist/back ache at low speeds. But then the SV650S has this just without the sublime handling/braking/acceleration.

I went from a pointy SVS to a 2004 ZX-6R 636.

I'd say the jump in performance was more of a shock than going from the 6R to the 10R. They are mental in comparison.

It doesn't feel less powerful in the mid range or low end. It is smoother and less snatchy for commuting around town.

Wrist pain is a lot worse but backside, back and right hand vibe pain is far better.

Fuel consumption was the same even though I was riding faster. Steering is much sharper, feels like riding a BMX in comparison to the SV.

Well I can tell you my limited experience of switching. Please note, I'm certainly no expert who gets his knee down on every corner; just an everyday Joe who enjoys bikes and has recently changed bikes:

I have ridden an SV650s for four years since passing my test. In this time I have done nearly 43k miles in all months and conditions, including ice, snow and storms. It was a wonderful machine and never once let me down... not once. It needed one or two bits doing to it along the way, as you can imagine, but there was not a single morning when it didn't start and get me to work or wherever I was going. This includes three of the four years without a garage and two of those without even a cover. I kept up with the services religiously and fitted a scottoiler, but apart from that did very little to it at all. I didn't even wash it much. It was looking very warn come the end, with serious pitting from the salt on the roads. But I can't say enough good things about the machine.

However, the bigger bills had started rolling in and to be perfectly honest, the joy of biking had faded a little with commuting and just general malaise with the machine I'd had for such a long time. I was finding myself on full throttle quite a lot of the time and wanting more power. Not needing more power - the sv gave me enough - just wanting more to play with basically. The bike was getting a little tired to bother with new can and other mods so I started looking for a new machine, considering first the sport 600s. I ended up with a larger machine, but that's another story.

I borrowed a K7 ZX6R for a couple of days and nights while waiting for my new bike to be prepped. My experience was that it was a manageable beast. I agree with DanAbnormal when he says that the handling was in a different league. The bike was prepared to turn in much sharper and the braking was incredible. I'm certainly no expert but I felt more confident in corners with the ZX than with the SV.

Power-wise that ZX was pretty flat lower down the rev range. I know DanAbnormal anticipated this but up until you hit about 8k revs it certainly does not pull as well as the sv. There is less torque developed lower down and, as such, it makes for a completely different ride. However, the mid-range between 8k revs and 11.5k revs gave a real kick, developing lots of power insanely quickly. An added bonus was that the exhaust note started howling at these revs. The buzz is incredible when you are running like this. Over 12k revs was pretty hard to achieve legally. In first these revs lift the front wheel (which you may well want to do - I didn't on a loan bike with a £1000 excess). Second gear takes you beyond 90mph in this rev range and third gear and above is license losing speeds. So I'd think the highest rev band would be reserved for the track, mainly.

Comfort-wise the ZX was pretty cramped, with a large drop down to the bars which puts a lot of weight on the wrists if you're not using your legs properly. With standard screen there is very little wind protection and you certainly feel this when accelerating hard. The bike itself feels tiny, but this has a positive payoff when flinging it around in the twisties.

So, in summary, I would say that providing you have some reasonable miles under your belt in various conditions on the sv and you take it easy to start with, you will be fine on a sports 600. If the others are like the ZX (and if the older GSX-R600 that I tried indicates they are similar in nature) it really is very easy to ride them sedatel. Just keep the revs under about 8k and you'll be slower than the SV. The burst of power when the revs rise is one to watch, particularly pulling out of corners. I'd say think about what you want one for, though. If you're doing a lot of commuting or touring, then think again. They are not comfortable at all over distance and spinning the revs up is great fun, but really quite hard work over time. If you're after a lazier ride then stick with a twin. However, if you're prepared to put the work in then they can be an absolute hoot.

Now I'll retire and let people who really know what they are on about answer your question...

Originally Posted by DanAbnormal

Low down grunt is not as immediate

That is BS, I proved this wasn't the case in another thread. A SS600 has the same or more punch (power AND torque) low down as your SV ... it just has twice as much when the revs get up!! Ride both bikes at the same revs and the 600 is never 'weaker' than the 650!!

Originally Posted by Blue_SV650S

That is BS, I proved this wasn't the case in another thread. A SS600 has the same or more punch (power AND torque) low down as your SV ... it just has twice as much when the revs get up!! Ride both bikes at the same revs and the 600 is never 'weaker' than the 650!!

I suppose this can't be denied. But it's also about what it feels like in everyday riding. My thoughts are that if you are forced to spend a lot of time between 0rpm and 7k rpm, then this is where the sv does most of it's work. However for the ZX and other 600s they are not really doing very much here. My experience was that in the lower gears (1st, 2nd, 3rd) this rev range was lucky to get you to 30 or 40mph, whereas on the SV you would be getting near the rev limiter and also near the national speed limit if you were in third.

So therefore you need lots more revs and lots more gear changes on the IL4 sports 600s to achieve the same effect as on the SV. (And hence more work)

I had a high revving (for a car) Honda Civic Type R before my current diesel TDi and it felt like a similar difference. The petrol Civic being the equivalent of the ZX6R and the diesel Golf being the equivalent of the SV. Hope that makes sense!

Originally Posted by Blue_SV650S

That is BS, I proved this wasn't the case in another thread. A SS600 has the same or more punch (power AND torque) low down as your SV ... it just has twice as much when the revs get up!! Ride both bikes at the same revs and the 600 is never 'weaker' than the 650!!

Dude, it's not BS it's my opinion. Besides, the SV felt like it got to, say, 10mph quicker than my Ninja. From setting off you have to give much more revs on a SS600 than you do on the SV, based on my experience with both kinds of bike. You clearly have some special kind of SV!

Please re-read my post again as I feel you've totally missed this part, so let me highlight in bold for you:

DO NOT listen to those who say "oh but they have no midrange at all and you have to be at 11'000rpm before they even start going". It's all a load of pap.

My Kwak has better handaling, brakes and will go quicker than my old SV. It is for me more comfy on the bum, but my left wrist aches more, probably down to the increased gear changes.

There is a big difference in power above 10K but bellow that the kwak is far feom gutlss, it pulls smothley. The FI is IMO smother than the SV and less snatchy in town.

Fuel ecconomy is about the same and that is riding pretty quick.

All in i prefer my ZX to the SV. And as said people who say they have no mid range are talking crap, they do and plenty of it, it just feels less compared to when it gets to its stride at 12K plus. And the rasp at those revs is just as addictive as the V twin growl.

I have said loads over these posts, people confue the feeling of the iidiate tourque of the SV with the feeling of BHP, so the SS600 feels gutless in comparison. A bit like a diesel will feel as though its faster than a sports car, but its not.

According to the Dyno charts the SV650 is exactly the same as the SS600 (specifically the GSXR600) up until 8000RPM in terms of both power and torque. At that point the GSXR continues to make power at the same level of torque until it reaches 100 something horsepower.

So the Sv doesn't have stronger bottom end, It doesn't have more torque, it just has less power over 8000 RPM.

In changing to a SS600 you are going to get more Whollop from 8000 RPM and up. So if you run the SS600 up to 8000, it'd accellerate and perform exactly as an SV engine would in the SS600 frame.

But the likelyhood is that it has better suspension and a sportier geometry and weight bias so it's going to feel different.

If you do swap from one to the other, use the bit above 8000 RPM a little at first until you are used to the extra. Simple

Carl

Originally Posted by Berlin

According to the Dyno charts the SV650 is exactly the same as the SS600 (specifically the GSXR600) up until 8000RPM in terms of both power and torque. At that point the GSXR continues to make power at the same level of torque until it reaches 100 something horsepower.

So the Sv doesn't have stronger bottom end, It doesn't have more torque, it just has less power over 8000 RPM.

In changing to a SS600 you are going to get more Whollop from 8000 RPM and up. So if you run the SS600 up to 8000, it'd accellerate and perform exactly as an SV engine would in the SS600 frame.

But the likelyhood is that it has better suspension and a sportier geometry and weight bias so it's going to feel different.

Once again if the charts say it's true, it must be. However, it most certainly doesn't feel that way when you're riding. Very confusing...

If you do swap from one to the other, use the bit above 8000 RPM a little at first until you are used to the extra. Simple

Carl

Totally agree.