Please Help Pointy woes - won't start.

Hi there,
i've just aquired an SV to take into Minitwins and have a problem with it starting. The previous owner had fitted a smaller battery to save some weight (fair enough) and when I went to view the bike/buy it it started no problems under it's own power.

However, when I went to start it some 2 weeks later it was not having it, all that happend was the dashboard went dim and the starter relay just clicked the once, I did notice that the lead down to the starter motor became very hot very quickly.

After a few attempts the starter solanoid the went off machine gun style and the lead remained cold but like I say obviously no current going down it.
Charged the battery and re-fitted, again, no relay noice just hot wires. Then after a few attempts, relay noise.

I went to halfords and got a pukka Yusaba battery 65 quid the correct one for a pointy as per haynes manual. Probably twice the physical size of the one on the bike when I brought it.
I have charged this up for a few hours and although the "OK" light wasn't lit on the optimate, I fitted it in hope. Same problem. The relay is allowing current to the starter motor but the lead just gets incredibly hot. The starter relay isn't clicking and going off.

I stripped the starter motor and cleaned the contacts and the connections are in excellent order. I have tried to bypass the starter relay by placing a jump lead on the battery +tve and on the starter motor connection rod, all this does is make the jump lead literally smoke and glow orange where it is touching the battery +tve and starter motor.

Is it simply the case I wait until the new battery is fully charged to try again or is there something else to check. Done all the usual searches and check clutch switch and s'stand swtich. Starter push button stripped and re-assembled nothing untoward anywhere

Originally Posted by RGV250ads

Done all the usual searches and check clutch switch and s'stand swtich. Starter push button stripped and re-assembled nothing untoward anywhere

Just to double check. Kill switch?

Yep all sorted.
Obvious I know.

When i turn the ignition key on, yet leave the kill switch off, the fuel pump doesn't prime, it only primes when the kill switch is set to run so all is working there. I have an SV1000 too and have run an RGV250 for 3 years so know my way around a bike no trouble, but the two stroke was bump start only none of this palarva !

have you been hokeing about with any of the wireing or any thing??? or have you dont any thing at all 2 the bike from you got it???

or did you basically get it leave it for 2 weeks come back 2 start it and nothing?

All I did was move the battery location from the front to underneath the seat and fitting new Suzuki OEM battery wires.

If the wire to the starter motor is getting hot, then a lot of current is flowing somewhere. Solenoid rattling after several attempts could be down to low voltage if your working the battery really hard... and it sounds like you are...

Sounds to me like a fault with the starter motor itself. Could be as simple as buggered motor brushes, or a mechanical siezure of some sort. I guess you would have noticed if the starter motor didn't disengage properly last time you ran it, but worth checking when you do get it going.

thanks for the reply philbo, but I stripped the starter motor and all seems well, What I did notice is that I couldn't turn the starter splines by hand, only with a pair of molegrips, however with molegrips attached it was free and loose, so I do not suspect that to be the problem.

What is frustrating me thou is that the bike was fired up and run in front of my eyes only 2 weeks ago and now it won't play ball.

I'm loathed to go and get a starter motor as I have seen this one working before my very eyes.
One thing I noticed was when I undone the starter motor long bolts and made it looser the starter motor ran up fine when connected to the +tve of the battery, yet when I done the bolts up the start motor wouldn't turn ??

Sounds like a mechanical problem. I would expect to be able to turn the motor by hand when mechanically disengaged from the engine...Not 100% sure on that but even big kW industrial motors can be turned by hand when mechanically "off load". Along with your other symptoms, and it working with the loosened fittings suggests to me that its not fitted 100% correctly. No spare parts left over? Only other possibility is the starter windings are knackered and isn't producing the amount of torque required to turn over the engine.

Electrically it sounds OK, DC motors take high current on start up and will heat up cables very quickly, as well as draining power from your battery...also very quickly!

Only other thing to try is to test the motor windings, but if it's running OK wit h loosened fittings it's probably fine.

Assuming the brushes are good and working...
Use a multimeter in the ohms range with the bike switched off. Between either brush and negative battery post you should have infinate Ohms. (Same reading you get when meter probes are not connected to anything). Between the two brushes you will have a low reading, maybe 5 - 10 Ohms? (Not sure what to expect TBH).

Turn the motor slowly during both tests. For the second test, your readings should stay more or less the same all the way round give or take an Ohm or two. Any variation will be repeated and consistant. Any readings showing short circuit, 0 Ohms, or a very high reading indicates a damaged winding and a buggered starter. They key thing to watch for as mentined is consistancy in the readings. Don't get too hung up on the actual values.

Just had another jolly thought...maybe your engines siezed? Can you bump start it?

Hmm i'll try the starter motor out of the engine again with a fully chaged battery see what happens tomorrow.

I did try and bump start the bike but i could not do it. I'm not the strongest person in the world and only 5'5" tall so pushing it with the clutch in was a chore in itself (It took some effort to get it past crawling walking speed), once I let the clutch out the back wheel just didn't turn at all and the bike came to a rather light tyre squeek halt

I think it's the starter motor rather than a major issue like an engine seize, as it hasn't been run since it was warmed up when I picked the bike up 2 weeks ago. Fact is when I loosen the starter motor bolts that holds the unit together it can turn no problem, yet when it's done up it wont turn over and I get Mr Hot Wires again.

When I stripped the starter motor down and took the 'barrels' of it apart there was a rather large amount of brush/contact 'grindings' and debris that came out, maybe it's shot to fook ? The brushes that are left though are very thick and it's not like they wouldn't be touching the motor cylinder.

Sounds like a bad ground (earth) to me. Especially when it fired right up when you bought it. The hot wire getting hot is the clue.
If you have an auto electric shop nearby, take the starter in and have them do a test on it. They do it for free in the US.