N00b tourer needs some advice

[L3nny]

Hi guys, just after some advice on a first time European tour. Me and a friend have recently bought bikes (i got a pointy SVs and he has a Thundercat) and we are thinking of doing a bit our a European tour come the summer.

We are just in the early planning stages but I don't really know where to start.

We want to go over to the Nurburgring then take in some nice mountain roads going over the alps on our way to Monaco, across the Cote D Azure and up into Andorra, then down to Barcelona. We will then either get the ferry from northen spain or cain it up the Autoroutes back to blighty.

We are planning on doing this trip over 2 weeks.

Main questions are

1. Have we planned to do to much? Is 2 weeks and/or 2000 miles too much for a first time trip?

2. Does this look like an interesting route. (the route des grandes alpes and the Pyrenees are the main things we want to ride round). We dont want to get to a pint where we are not enjoying ourselves as we have so many miles we need to cover?

3. Is it best to plan the whole trip or just wing it?

4. Will we need to take a tent or will there be suficient B&B accomodation?

As we are both novice riders we don't want to have to stretch ourselves too much.

Any help appriciated.

Chz

[Luckypants]

Originally Posted by L3nny

Hi guys, just after some advice on a first time European tour. Me and a friend have recently bought bikes (i got a pointy SVs and he has a Thundercat) and we are thinking of doing a bit our a European tour come the summer.

We are just in the early planning stages but I don't really know where to start.

We want to go over to the Nurburgring then take in some nice mountain roads going over the alps on our way to Monaco, across the Cote D Azure and up into Andorra, then down to Barcelona. We will then either get the ferry from northen spain or cain it up the Autoroutes back to blighty.

We are planning on doing this trip over 2 weeks.

Main questions are

1. Have we planned to do to much? Is 2 weeks and/or 2000 miles too much for a first time trip?

You sure all that you outlined above is only 2000 miles?? I did 2300 on a circuit of France, you suggest doing quite a bit more than France. However, that kind of mileage is do-able, but you might not enjoy it all...

2. Does this look like an interesting route. (the route des grandes alpes and the Pyrenees are the main things we want to ride round). We dont want to get to a pint where we are not enjoying ourselves as we have so many miles we need to cover?

3. Is it best to plan the whole trip or just wing it?

Bit of both in my experience. Depends what suits you.

4. Will we need to take a tent or will there be suficient B&B accomodation?

B&B no problem if you not shy.

As we are both novice riders we don't want to have to stretch ourselves too much.

Any help appriciated.

Chz

HTH

[L3nny]

Thanks for the reply. A quick mess about on google maps came out with THIS route

The waypoints are not necesseraly places where we want to stop just a way to get it to include some nice mountain and coastal roads.

This is 1900 miles so if we get the ferry from Santander or Bilbao back the total would be about 2000

I have just been reading the post on the trip you made. Looks like you had a good time, making me even more determined to get the most from the trip.

[Luckypants]

Wow not as far as I thought. Adding a ferry stop in Northern Spain takes the total miles up to around 2300 (plus 130 to get home from Portsmouth). You might want to do more as the roads in the Pyranees are meant to be very good (never been on the bike). This is certainly do-able in a fortnight (probably 10 riding days). The only thing to remember is that the mileage in the Alps will drop as even 30 mph is a high average over the mountain passes, so trying to achieve 300 mile days is hard work.

I would advise you to schedule a couple of rest days not riding the bike to allow concentration levels to recover and factor in the crossing times.

Go for it, that looks an awesome trip.

Again check out Harwich > Hoek van Holland over night. From Warwick its an evening ride down to Harwich and you wake up in Holland Half a days ride from the Eiffel.

That gives you half a day to explore the Eiffel which has some superb roads.

The next day your in Nurnbernring

Heading South you show Autobhan (probably for ease of google mapping) and then Switzerland. Most folk seem to avoid Switzerland as it has enthusiastic police who do not like stuff loud and fast. Never been there so dont know.

However if you were to drive down thru the Mozel valley thru Trier onto an area south of Metz you get a choice of roads but most probably Epinal or maybe Besancon and then along the Jura bypassing Geneva taking in Annecy on your way to Mnt Blanc. All good roads good scenery.

Your route South from there is superb Barcellonette is superb place to stay as is Briancon.

South of Barcellonette Take the D64 (parallel to the 902) you pass the Col de ???? 2800m!! which is also a superb road winding down. Stop off at ST Ettienne de Tinee to WOW at that ride with your fellow traveller and then loop back to the route posted via the D28 or even also the D30.

I have travelled the Cote d'Azur twice and always been dissapointed its just a traffic jam by the sea which becomes very boring. If you have never ridden the Gorge du Verdun then turn west and do it! you will not be sorry. It can also be busy but the views are spectacular and on the Cote its just some rich gits house on one side and the sea on the other whilst fighting traffic all the way.

From the gorge head south and join your route north of Toulon. Roads into Ollioules via the Paul Ricard circuit are neat and just to the west of Ollioules are prime beaches if you want to soak some of it up.

Nimes is a neat ex Roman city with Amptheatre and other stuff. If you have time Avignon is a good city to tour but not IMO a bikers venue.

You are cutting south of the Tarn. OK you cant do every thing but for me if it was a choice between driving the coast road to Barcelona or the Tarn to Albi and then down to Andorra I would take the latter. If you wanna go to Barcelona get a cheap flight and take the missus/ girlfreind for a long weekend. Brownie points and fun in one package!

So from the Nimes area its Uzes> Ales and into the Tarn gorge bested only by the Gorge du verdon you did 2 days before. A long day will take you under the Millau Bridge to Albi. A superb ride starting in High cliff gorges to Millau and ending driving along one of the most beautiful river valleys toward Albi.

Next day is abit more relaxed taking you south to Andorra which give you time to play.

From Andorra you have the famous N260 from across the Spanish Pyrenees to Pamplona. Again Pamplona is a good venue. Dont book for early July (6th 'ish to the 16th) thats when they run the bulls (unless you want to join them)Tapas is superb and the old town. But the N260 getting there is a road to die for. 470 km is a long stint on mostly mountain twisties so allow plenty of time.

From Plamplona you can make either Bilbao or Santander. If you have a day to spare spend it in the Picos (roads around Potes).

You will have crammed an alful lot into two weeks. Plan rest days. In france plan Sundays as rest days or at least low mileage days. many fuel stations are closed.

Originally Posted by Tilt

Plan rest days. In france plan Sundays as rest days or at least low mileage days. many fuel stations are closed.

Most petrol stations in France have automated payment when closed. Whilst Ive fortunately never had a problem using this, Ive heard stories of some UK credit/debit cards not being accepted on occasions.

[L3nny]

Thanks for all the advice so far.

Tilt, I think you are right about the Cote, I have driven some of it before and it was a bit boring (that may have had something to do with the fact I was in a 206 estate mind)

I'll try and get your other suggestions up on Google to see which are gonna be do-able.

Cheers

[STRAMASHER]

Whats the rush? I could get 3 2wk holidays out of that!

My advice would be a pick an area, and seek out the fun stuff, ie not autoroute/motorway stuff. Although the motorways are fantastic for getting to the good stuff quick as everbody and their granny drives at 100mph anywhere in Europe apart from maybe Switzerland (slower). The only folk that don't overtake us are the infamous, cos they are everywhere Dutch caravaners/campers and big artics.

Book the ferry and thats it. Unless you want to pick somewhere as a base, Nice , Barcelona etc. Never had problems finding accomodation, I like camping but its too much gear/hassle for me especially 2up. In the mountains , especially Pyrenees hotels are cheap and abundant cos there is nobody there generally as its their off season in the summer. Start looking for hotels/B&B's late afternoon is a good bet. Earlier if you roll into somewhere nice.(Plenty of those places)

Some of my favourite bits have been:

GERMANY:
Pfalzerwald, Road 48 (South of Kaiserslautern)
Don't remember many straight bits through the forests, quality surface. Big popular bike meet at the weekends at Johanniskreuz half way down.


BlackForest(Schwarzwald) Road 500 North to south.
Endless smooth surfaced twisties through forests so hardcore biking territory with not too many amazing views to break your flow. German bikers never miss a wave, be careful of the style you return your wave.

SWITZERLAND:

Road to Zermatt and spend half a day getting on cablecars and gondolas getting higher and higher , your head too. Matterhorn is fecking impressive, the earlier in the morning you get to Zermatt the better, before the top of the Matterhorn gets a cloud hat.
Top of the Furka
The 3 Passes , east of Interlaken.
Susten,Furka and Grimsel(not done that one). As good if not better, but certainly quieter than anything in the French Alps. Mad glaciers and views that made me still wish I smoked.

FRANCE:
Galibier
Alps: D902 Col De Galibier is a peach and the Col de Bonetta is the daddy just cos its so high its like being on a different planet (and was closed in late June from snow the 1st time we tried to do it.) Popular so one to try and get there early doors to beat the Dutch "happy" campers and taking a photo of the rock at the top along with 40 1200GS's.

A loop including D954 and D3 from SavinesLeLac is a twisty gem and quiet and breathtaking views high up above the lake.

N85 and Gorge Du Verdon as said by folk here.........and anybody thats rode them , is COMPULSORY!!!
Coming over the big hill and seeing the med, and its got the road as well, tight and twisty through gorges to 3figure sweepers, up and down dale. Stunning.
Gorge Du Verdon, everybody takes this shot!
The Gorge is best mid week and as early as you can get onto the road, avoiding coaches. Do the full loop anticlockwise including the wee bit east of La Palud. We stayed 2 nights in Castellane(small and very nice,good few hotels/accom.) so we could spend a full day on it. Forget about speed cos the drops are brutal.

You could easily spend 2weeks "doing Col's" in this part of the France. So much choice.

ITALY:
East side

West side
Stelvio Pass. North of Bormio near Swiss border.
Dangerous and unrelenting. So a magnet for bikers! The sweat will be ****ing out you, 96? hairpins. We went east to west. East is the hardcore side, REALLY tight and not great surface. Again ,one to try during the week, avoiding fast locals spooking you and weekend warriors getting it very wrong in the opposite direction or just bricking it and holding everybody else up by wobbling about doing 20mph. West side down is faster and has a much better surface. Amazing views both sides and being a bike you can pull in anywhere for a rest and a photie. Change you rear brake pads at the top!

PYRENEES:

As said N260. All of it! But Sort to La Seu'd'Urgell is the most famous and twisty bit. The rest has got everything. You can go from big open 130mph stretches,through a tunnel and into 40mph tight and twisty and back onto the ton-up stuff. Mad. Generally great surfaces and quiet compared to the Alps. Cheaper too. French side has poorer quality roads and is greener so wetter! Bagners to Laruns, D618/918 are choice and you can do 3 or 4 Cols in the one day. Amazing cablecar journey and views at the top at Pic Du Midi De Bigorre.
Even the motorway to Bilbao/Santander is a mind blower, although you will be dreaming of a 'Busa or summit.



Belgians are the worst drivers (no one knows why?)but no where near as pig ignorant and dangerous as here. You will notice the difference straight away off the ferry............... and when you come back to UK! Guaranteed roadrage within the 1st mile! The rest are a league away from us, considerate and spotted you mile away.

Don't hang about in the fast lane or they will be an inch of your back tyre, before you have even clocked them, especially Germany. Keep on top of your lane discipline and you will not have many probs.

Buy Michelin or Philips maps to start spotting the most squiggly roads.

You will take far to much stuff. (I have a mate who took shoe polish and coat hangers FFS!)



It will be a class experience and an adventure but don't punish yourself by hammering the miles. I would seriously chose Alps or Pyrenees (keep in mind anywhere flat is boring ****.) After you do your first trip you will be addicted anyway and you have next year and the rest of your biking life to explore the rest.

Take it easy and I'm just a bit envious.

[Binky]

Originally Posted by STRAMASHER

My advice would be...

Great post STRAMASHER. Nice pointers and photographs.

just to be clear the Col de bonnette is on the D64.

Stramasher has a point however basing your self in Barcellonette for example there are several superb "loops" you can make.........