Motorbike ABS.

[SoulKiss]

Posting these thoughts in the hope that it may save another orger with this technology strapped to their bike from having a misunderstanding.

Yes I realise that Hitlers Bike also had ABS.

I have got ABS on my Z750, I have had it for 15 months, done 10k miles on it and 2 Track Days at Brands Hatch. I have also had one off which involved heavy braking, so I think I may be slightly qualified to discuss the topic, however that does not mean I know everything about it, and look forwards to reasoned corrections.

ABS is NOT a magical thing that stops your bike for you.

In fact, it does the exact opposite.

It detects the wheel getting to the point of locking and disengages the brakes, so that you may have the lever to the grip, but if its too much, well "computer says no".

So why would you want something that stops you from stopping?

If you get yourself into the situation where the ABS is countermanding your instructions to apply the brakes, then a non-ABS bike would have locked a wheel, so you would STILL be travelling forwards, like on the ABS bike, except you now have the random factors of a locked wheel in play.

I realise that these are probably not THAT random, and that there are situations that "stepping out the back" can be advantageous, but I am talking about sudden, crisis situations.

The example I have, my cyclist/van interface of last week.

It all happened so fast that I don't actually know if the ABS kicked in and it really was a "grab a handful" situation, there was so much going on physically from the jolt of impact to the shouldering the side of the van, but I do know that we continued in a straight line, and from looking at the road, there was nothing to indicate locked wheels.

The result being that the front end didn't wash out, or have me end up with a high-side, there was no twist/wrench like you get when the back end slips then grips.

The other good point of ABS is that contrary to some of the opinions I got when I asked about advice on choosing it for my Zed, it doesn't mean that you don't need to learn to brake, you still need to learn the limits of braking so that you can brake as hard as you can WITHOUT causing the ABS to kick in, because as said above, id the ABS is at work, you are not stopping. What ABS does bring to the party is a nice warning via feedback through the lever that you WOULD have had a lock, but no punishment via a lowside or a highside (ok not guaranteed outcomes of a lock, but possible)

My Conclusion?

Well ABS is NOT the brainchild of Satan, but neither is it a Guardian Angel, its a tool and its up to the rider to learn how it works, and to learn to use it.


Now let the flaming begin

[Viney]

As i have always sadi ABS was designed to allow the vechicle to manouvore around the object that you are about to hit. On motorcycles its there i woul dimagine for the same reason, and also to avoid those 'panic breaking' type loss of the front wheel situations. The argument has always been there if a locked wheel on a car will stop quicker than an ABS equipped vehicle.

Poeple love it, people hate it, its another marmite debate.

Learn not to lock up, simples...

Edit: My last two offs were from locking the front, no other reason, poor front brake control by me. I would like to try ABS.

[G]

Soulkiss I think you are missing the point of ABS, its does not stop the brakes from braking/engaging....its pulses on/off/on/off in a lock up situation.

If you are braking hard enough for ABS to kick then the front would have locked up potentially and you would more than likely be on your **** anyway.

Ultimately in any condition ABS will stop a bike quicker than a bike without ABS......even when its a racing god from BSB on board the bike without ABS. So to say ABS does not stop a bike is bol'x I'm afraid.

[SoulKiss]

Originally Posted by plowsie

Learn not to lock up, simples...

Which on an ABS equipped bike equates to "learn not to give the ABS reason to engage, simples".

ABS allows those of us who are not riding gods (and possibly even the riding gods) to have a better chance to keep the bike upright when that Pedestrian walks straight out from behind a bus, or indeed that lemming cyclist switches lanes on you......

As I mentioned, I was referring to PANIC! braking.

Point of reference dispite going up to 4th and redlining that (so I guess 125mph+) at the start finish line @ Brands yesterday, I never felt the ABS engage as I slowed/dropped a gear for Paddock Hill, despite shaving a ton of speed off. (this example is only used because its the only one I have of heavy high speed (to me) braking, not to make any comparison to any other situations that may have occurred at that spot)

Do you actually feel the ABS engage?

I know my dream bike atm would be the HRC Fireblade (never gonna happen). But, I don't think I will ever buy a bike with ABS, to me, brakes are slightly important, for ABS to fail and not re-engage the brakes for whatever reason, the consequences could be critical. I'd rather take my chances with a normal system.

As said ABS allows you to panic brake and maintain a high level of control over the bike.

The ideal situation would be - don't panic brake. Though when road riding there are always going to be those situations where things come out of the blue and basic instinct says "grab a handful".

The more experienced rider should be less likely to lock up the wheel but I believe everyone is capable of doing this under certain circumstances.

ABS should be there just in case the worst happens and allows you to maintain a reasonable level of control in situations when every millisecond counts.

See here for an illustrative (i.e. not scientific) video comparing ABS and Normal brakes.

Originally Posted by plowsie

Learn not to lock up, simples...

Edit: My last two offs were from locking the front, no other reason, poor front brake control by me. I would like to try ABS.

it takes a few lock-ups to find the limit. I've locked the front once, and that was trying to slow my speed even more just before i hit the car that u-turned on me. I knew i had locked the brakes, and if the car wasnt there i would have released, dabbed my foot and carried on....or just fallen off, who knows (i did spend alot of time on a field bike once locking the front end, so i have a feel for it).

ABS helps when you brake brake brake in an emergency then go over a less than great surface e.g. some oil on the road, gravel, who knows.

The one thing I got confused about when you were explaing it it yesterday was the amount of pressure transmitted through to the brakes.

I imagined that it would be that it would reduce the amount of braking pressure going to the brakes to the maximum level possible that would not cause a lock. That's where I thought the adage that ABS brakes will always stop the quickest came from.

But from what you were saying (about having to disengage and reapply anyway) it sounded like it would reduce the braking pressure going to the brakes to zero.

Did I misunderstand/am wrong/etc?

[SoulKiss]

Originally Posted by G

Soulkiss I think you are missing the point of ABS, its does not stop the brakes from braking/engaging....its pulses on/off/on/off in a lock up situation.

If you are braking hard enough for ABS to kick then the front would have locked up potentially and you would more than likely be on your **** anyway.

Ultimately in any condition ABS will stop a bike quicker than a bike without ABS......even when its a racing god from BSB on board the bike without ABS. So to say ABS does not stop a bike is bollox I'm afraid.

Ok, bad wording on my part (I really shouldn't do essay-length posts at work )

Yes ABS does kick in and out - and yes it does stop you.

The point I was (badly) trying to make is that it takes longer to stop due to the pulsing.

However at high speed I would argue that if you held the lever to the bar, then the stopping distance would be a lot longer than if you treated the ABS engaging as a lock and disengaged the brakes and then re-applied progressively.