Salary Overpayment.. Can They Do This??

Just wondering if anyone can provide any advice on the following query.

Myself and I think every single District Nurse working for my PCT today received a letter - a notification of salary overpayment. The PCT has recently changed payroll provider and it has "come to light" that there has been an error in our working time directive payments (unsociable hours). They say there was no way that us nurses would have realised we had been overpaid and they say the error was simply due to somebody pressing the wrong button.

The error has resulted in overpayments for the period 1st Sept 2006 to 28th Feb 2010 and they say that they intend recovering this money over a 36 month period commencing October 2010. In some cases the overpayment is as much as £2,000 and I`m just wondering if...


Legally they can just take this amount out of our salaries each month?

If this error is down to an oversight by the payroll provider should we actually be responsible for the full amount? should there not be some sort of discount.

Are they actually able to recover monies overpaid from 4 years ago?

[Ruffy]

Sadly, probably yes - I think it's because the terms of your employment contract will define payment rates etc.

Assuming you're signed up, speak to a union rep - they should have access to a professional advisor. If you do repay, don't forget that there could be some tax back due as a result, but you'll probably have to claim it yourself for previous tax years. Again, union should be able to advise.

Perhaps collectively you could campaign for an ex-gratia payment in return for being helpful. Anything to soften the impact.

[andrewsmith]

They are able to do it if they realise within a month and can correct it. After this amount of time the payroll provider is at fault.

Reclaiming from that far back is stupid.
Has the union been notified of this letter yet?

The WTD payments in the NHS are fraught with difficulties, and different trusts apply the rules in subtly different ways. The new provider will have been looking at the approach as part of the migration which will have turned up the error. (when did your trust migrate to ESR?)

Can they do it. Short answer is probably, and the long answer is maybe. Averaged over the 4 years, they are fairly small amounts, and only some of the staff affected will have recovery (what are they doing about staff turnover). It is almost certainly not an illegal stoppage, but I'm surprised the Trust is making the effort.

Claire is there anything in your contract of employment about recovery of over payment.

The following is from CAB's website.... may be worth a call to them tomorrow

By law, your employer is only entitled to make certain deductions from your pay. They can deduct tax and national insurance (NI) and they can also make other deductions for which they have previously got your written consent or which are allowed in your contract of employment.
However, if there has been a genuine overpayment of your wages, your employer doesn't need your consent to recover this. They can make a deduction from your wages without your agreement. There are some exceptions to this rule and there are special rules about deductions made from shop-worker's pay.

I will have a word with my boss tomorrow and see what her take of it is.

A couple of years back my employer paid us all twice in one month. were paid by BACS system and as they moved from one bank to another the old one wasnt cancelled, hence the 2 payments.

Were were asked to pay it back via a cheque, we were told if we didnt then it would be claimed back off next months pay.

Seemed easier just to write a cheque and be done with it, some took longer than others, but at the time we couldnt be sure they were in the wrong, as much as we all wanted double pay that month.

[Bri w]

In theory they can take it one go but in practice most employers would look to recoup the over payment(full amount) over a reasonable time frame.

I'd ask for detail of the over payment, i.e. the calculation.

It might be worth asking someone versed in employment law whether or not the overpayment over such a long period would constitute a change in contract. Wouldn't hold you breath though.

Originally Posted by andrewsmith

They are able to do it if they realise within a month and can correct it. After this amount of time the payroll provider is at fault.

No, No, No. Employees actually have a legal duty to check their payslips and raise any unexpected payments or deductions. Time can be an issue, but you don't get to keep it after 'a month'

[maviczap]

One of my team was overpaid by about £2000, but he claimed it would have cause unecessary hardship to pay it back, so they wrote it off.

When I was overpaid by £1500 I was threatend with disciplinary action if I didn't repay it, which was correct according our guidance, as I should have notified HR about the overpayment

@ Ruffy..... we weren`t informed of this until 5pm tonight when the letters were given out. Collectively we`re in 2 unions, either the RCN or Unison, we`ll contact the relevant people tomorrow. One of my queries is, as you say, we have paid tax and N.I. on this overpayment so where do we stand with this.

@ Simesb.. I`m not 100% sure about the ESR, would have to find out and I hadn`t thought about staff turnover, thats one other thing i`ll put to them. It is relatively small amounts spread over 4 years but in my clinic alone there are 30 District Nurses and there are around 30 clinics within the PCT so that adds up to a nice sum for them to recover. We also have evening staff and night staff who due to the hours could potentially end up paying one hell of a lot of money back... as bad as it is for us on days my heart really goes out to the night staff.

@ Lily.... I can`t see anything at all in the contract about overpayment. I`ll see what the union say tomor and if needs be we can speak to someone at the CAB.


Many thanks for your help guys... a couple of pointers there for me to add to the email we`ll be sending collectively.