Down again - SV650.org

13-11-10, 07:45 PM

Had another off today on the Tiger 1050. I'm fine and not too much damage to the bike. I was on a 40mph dual carriageway section of the A1, overtaking a car which decided to swerve towards me. I braked fairly hard and the front locked.

I've got a cracked fairing panel, broken gear lever, badly scraped crank case cover and busted indicator lens. Also the forks are twisted again. Car didn't stop (possibly didn't notice) and was off too fast for me to read the numberplate. No witnesses either. So I'm not going to put this one through the insurance so soon after a very similar off.

I'm puzzled why the Tiger went down. In five years of owning the Speed Triple, I didn't drop it once, but I've only had the Tiger since the spring and twice the front has locked up and I've lost it. I'm wondering why this is. It might be bad luck, it might be that the Pilot Roads on the Tiger are crap compared to the Pilot Powers that I had on the Triple, or is it the something to do with the design of the bike itself. I'm wishing I'd got the ABS version, as that might have saved me both times. Is it possible to retro-fit ABS to a Tiger? If I'd fitted ABS when I bought the bike, it might have paid for itself now.

I don't trust the Pilot Roads anymore. Does anyone have any opinions of Pilot Powers vs Avon Storms for grip in damp conditions?

Could do with some help to straighten the forks too.

G · 13-11-10, 09:15 PM

The forks are fairly long and bouncy on the tiger arn't they?

Whenever I have been on bikes like that I've felt really untrusting when 'on' the brakes, never really trusting the front.

ethariel · 13-11-10, 09:42 PM

Crap sorry to hear

Anyone on forum with a tiger thats not binned it, watch out lol

Red Herring · 14-11-10, 12:18 PM

At the risk of getting all technical it's far easier to lock the front wheel in the initial stages of braking on a bike with longer travel forks than one with a shorter firmer action.

When you first brake you start a weight transfer process and this compresses the front forks. The more pressure (weight) there is pushing the front tyre into the road the harder you can brake before it will skid, but whilst the forks are still compressing maximum pressure hasn't yet reached the tyre contact patch. What this means is that you need to feed in the front brake a little more progressively, if you snatch the front brake the wheel will lock before the weight has a chance to get onto the contact patch. Nothing wrong with the bike, just the nut holding the handlebars.

Messie · 14-11-10, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Herring

At the risk of getting all technical it's far easier to lock the front wheel in the initial stages of braking on a bike with longer travel forks than one with a shorter firmer action blah blah

Nothing wrong with the bike, just the nut holding the handlebars.

nice

Hope you're OK Wyrdness

Biker Biggles · 14-11-10, 07:46 PM

Bad luck.Arnt the Pilot Roads obselete now?I had one on the rear of my ZX9 but always used a Pilot Sport on the front.

Red Herring · 14-11-10, 10:43 PM

Sorry, I'm not setting out to be cruel but when you post along the lines of...

"but I've only had the Tiger since the spring and twice the front has locked up and I've lost it. I'm wondering why this is. It might be bad luck, it might be that the Pilot Roads on the Tiger are crap compared to the Pilot Powers that I had on the Triple, or is it the something to do with the design of the bike itself"

then someone really ought to point out the obvious oversight that it might just be pilot error to blame. A bike is a bike, and a tyre is a tyre, however they all have their individual characteristics and if as a rider you don't either understand that or allow for it then you are a disaster waiting to happen. Riding a bike is a serious business, it's not a case of you being unlucky, it's the complete opposite. You've come of twice on the road and been lucky enough to survive both times relatively unscathed. Wise up and stop relying on luck.

14-11-10, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Herring

Sorry, I'm not setting out to be cruel but when you post along the lines of...

"but I've only had the Tiger since the spring and twice the front has locked up and I've lost it. I'm wondering why this is. It might be bad luck, it might be that the Pilot Roads on the Tiger are crap compared to the Pilot Powers that I had on the Triple, or is it the something to do with the design of the bike itself"

then someone really ought to point out the obvious oversight that it might just be pilot error to blame. A bike is a bike, and a tyre is a tyre, however they all have their individual characteristics and if as a rider you don't either understand that or allow for it then you are a disaster waiting to happen. Riding a bike is a serious business, it's not a case of you being unlucky, it's the complete opposite. You've come of twice on the road and been lucky enough to survive both times relatively unscathed. Wise up and stop relying on luck.

With all due respect, I've been riding for 16 years, most days in in all weather, and have hardly ever had an off. Like I said, I had my Speed Triple for 5 years and never came off it, despite riding, and braking, much harder than I do on the Tiger. So coming off teh Tiger twice in a few months has puzzled me. Both times when I've come off the Tiger I've braked fairly hard, to avoid cars which switched lanes suddenly, but haven't really slammed the anchors on. I'm pretty sure that the Speed Triple wouldn't have gone down in the same circumstances and wouldn't have expected the Tiger to do so either. So I was asking what differences there are between the two bikes that might be a factor here.

Thanks for your technical explanation.

Red Herring · 14-11-10, 11:27 PM

I'm sorry mate but your post doesn't come across as being written by someone with that much experience. Coming off on the brakes is a serious issue and generally a sign of panic and poor judgement, and you've done it twice, not including the "hardly ever had an off"..... You suggest bad luck, then maybe the tyres, and then finally the design of the bike, but not once do you suggest it might be your mistake and I just felt that ought to be pointed out. If you believe that isn't an option then that's fine, good luck, but if I had failed to anticipate a car moving out on me to such an extent that I had crashed whilst trying to avoid it (twice!) then I wouldn't be looking at the bike for an excuse.

15-11-10, 12:06 AM

Abs probably would have saved you both times, thats why its been fitted to bikes.
Wish mine had it after today...
I locked up my rear wheel on a greasy road today, had the bike almost sideways, struggled to maintain control, had the sense to release the rear and front straight away, left the front alone then and applied rear again which locked again, nearly slid into Ralph.
In the end i just let go of all the braking and coasted past the turning, scary stuff.
Ive never locked the rear up before with so little braking force, i did when i done a trackday cos i changed down gear and didnt match the engine speed so with braking and downshifting i locked the rear a couple of times, but apart from a wiggle i didnt have the rear try and catch the front up.

Hope you and the bike are ok anyway mate.

13-11-10, 07:45 PM	#1
wyrdness Guest Posts: n/a	Down again Had another off today on the Tiger 1050. I'm fine and not too much damage to the bike. I was on a 40mph dual carriageway section of the A1, overtaking a car which decided to swerve towards me. I braked fairly hard and the front locked. I've got a cracked fairing panel, broken gear lever, badly scraped crank case cover and busted indicator lens. Also the forks are twisted again. Car didn't stop (possibly didn't notice) and was off too fast for me to read the numberplate. No witnesses either. So I'm not going to put this one through the insurance so soon after a very similar off. I'm puzzled why the Tiger went down. In five years of owning the Speed Triple, I didn't drop it once, but I've only had the Tiger since the spring and twice the front has locked up and I've lost it. I'm wondering why this is. It might be bad luck, it might be that the Pilot Roads on the Tiger are crap compared to the Pilot Powers that I had on the Triple, or is it the something to do with the design of the bike itself. I'm wishing I'd got the ABS version, as that might have saved me both times. Is it possible to retro-fit ABS to a Tiger? If I'd fitted ABS when I bought the bike, it might have paid for itself now. I don't trust the Pilot Roads anymore. Does anyone have any opinions of Pilot Powers vs Avon Storms for grip in damp conditions? Could do with some help to straighten the forks too.

13-11-10, 09:15 PM	#2
G Member Mega Poster Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 3,770	Re: Down again The forks are fairly long and bouncy on the tiger arn't they? Whenever I have been on bikes like that I've felt really untrusting when 'on' the brakes, never really trusting the front. __________________ 6.67300 × 10-11 m3 kg-1 s-2

13-11-10, 09:42 PM	#3
ethariel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: London (for my sins) Posts: 806	Re: Down again Crap sorry to hear Anyone on forum with a tiger thats not binned it, watch out lol

14-11-10, 12:18 PM	#4
Red Herring Member Mega Poster Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 2,708	Re: Down again At the risk of getting all technical it's far easier to lock the front wheel in the initial stages of braking on a bike with longer travel forks than one with a shorter firmer action. When you first brake you start a weight transfer process and this compresses the front forks. The more pressure (weight) there is pushing the front tyre into the road the harder you can brake before it will skid, but whilst the forks are still compressing maximum pressure hasn't yet reached the tyre contact patch. What this means is that you need to feed in the front brake a little more progressively, if you snatch the front brake the wheel will lock before the weight has a chance to get onto the contact patch. Nothing wrong with the bike, just the nut holding the handlebars.

14-11-10, 07:46 PM	#6
Biker Biggles Member Mega Poster Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Barnet Herts Posts: 5,071	Re: Down again Bad luck.Arnt the Pilot Roads obselete now?I had one on the rear of my ZX9 but always used a Pilot Sport on the front. __________________ On a clear day we stand there and look further than the ordinary eye can see.

14-11-10, 10:43 PM	#7
Red Herring Member Mega Poster Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 2,708	Re: Down again Sorry, I'm not setting out to be cruel but when you post along the lines of... "but I've only had the Tiger since the spring and twice the front has locked up and I've lost it. I'm wondering why this is. It might be bad luck, it might be that the Pilot Roads on the Tiger are crap compared to the Pilot Powers that I had on the Triple, or is it the something to do with the design of the bike itself" then someone really ought to point out the obvious oversight that it might just be pilot error to blame. A bike is a bike, and a tyre is a tyre, however they all have their individual characteristics and if as a rider you don't either understand that or allow for it then you are a disaster waiting to happen. Riding a bike is a serious business, it's not a case of you being unlucky, it's the complete opposite. You've come of twice on the road and been lucky enough to survive both times relatively unscathed. Wise up and stop relying on luck.

14-11-10, 11:27 PM	#9
Red Herring Member Mega Poster Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 2,708	Re: Down again I'm sorry mate but your post doesn't come across as being written by someone with that much experience. Coming off on the brakes is a serious issue and generally a sign of panic and poor judgement, and you've done it twice, not including the "hardly ever had an off"..... You suggest bad luck, then maybe the tyres, and then finally the design of the bike, but not once do you suggest it might be your mistake and I just felt that ought to be pointed out. If you believe that isn't an option then that's fine, good luck, but if I had failed to anticipate a car moving out on me to such an extent that I had crashed whilst trying to avoid it (twice!) then I wouldn't be looking at the bike for an excuse.

15-11-10, 12:06 AM	#10
Specialone Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Down again Abs probably would have saved you both times, thats why its been fitted to bikes. Wish mine had it after today... I locked up my rear wheel on a greasy road today, had the bike almost sideways, struggled to maintain control, had the sense to release the rear and front straight away, left the front alone then and applied rear again which locked again, nearly slid into Ralph. In the end i just let go of all the braking and coasted past the turning, scary stuff. Ive never locked the rear up before with so little braking force, i did when i done a trackday cos i changed down gear and didnt match the engine speed so with braking and downshifting i locked the rear a couple of times, but apart from a wiggle i didnt have the rear try and catch the front up. Hope you and the bike are ok anyway mate.