synthetic oil?

I'm a newbie (joined today 29th March). I haven't owned a bike for 12 years, and have now decided to ditch the car (traffic jams) and get an SV650S, which is on order for 6 weeks time, when we move to our new house with a garage. I asked the dealer to fit fairing lowers, a Scottoiler and a hugger, plus replace the oil with full synthetic bike oil before I take delivery. He said he didn't recommend it, as it's too good at lubricating, and may even make the clutch slip! Also, he said the motor wouldn't run in properly. I thought the object of the game was to reduce friction. I know a bike has a wet clutch and the gearbox uses the same oil, etc. but there are sites out there that recommend synthetic oil (see below). I'm going to run it for about 400 miles then switch to synthetic bike oil. Anyone advise aginst this?

http://www.prod.mobil1.com/motorcycle/index.jsp

http://www.synthetic-oil-tech.com/d....ose_amsoil.htm

http://www.rockoil.co.uk/

http://www.belray.com/consumer/Q&A%20pages/q&amo.html

http://www.svrider.com/tips/oilchange.htm

.... so what do people think?

Jon

This is one that goes back and forth alot but the general opinion is basically that fully synth isn't necessary on the SV; it just doesn't put enough demand on it's engine and you should change it often enough that it won't be properly dirty.
Your dealer is right not to want to put synth in straight away. It probably won't run in properly with it in. Clutch slip isn't the problem if you use oil rated to JASO MA, if not then it might be ok, but might not.

[Biker Biggles]

The dealer is right,You need running in oil for the first 600 miles or you will have problems with glazed bores and a poorly run in engine.As for after the running in period,semi synthetic oil is fine.You are wasting your money on fully synthetic,but if you are worried about wear rates change the oil more often,Clutch slip with fully synthetics is a problem in high power bikes,but why risk it?New cluthes are expensive

steer well clear of fully synthetic oil, unless you are racing or doing silly amounts of miles in one go. When you use fully synth oil it takes a long time to warm up so you have to give the bike ages to warm up and then the clutch will still probably slip giving you loads of grief (will run fantastic when hot but up to that point it will just be a pain in the ****)


Also new bikes have a cutting compound oil in them and when you have the first service done the dealer will replace it with semi synthetic and the bike will feel much smoother as well.


The cutting compound oil is essential for those first few miles to get everything running smoothly.



Mark

guys,
I build engines for a living, some costing well into quarter of a million pounds, i have never heard of anyone using a cutting oil or running in oil before (for use by the punter after purchase). Yes it may have a lighter oil from the factory but this is drained either on the PDI or at first service.
Best part of the running in is done in the factory under test, I may be wrong and am waiting to get shot down in flames if anyone can prove otherwise.

sorry mate not trying to offend, but this is just what I was told when I told the dealer I wanted fully synthetic oil in my sv. If im wrong then sorry for the false info, still learning and obviousely got lots to go.

Thanks for pointing that out, will have words with my dealer.



Mark

[embee]

I've been in engine design/development for over 25yrs, and I agree with jakeblues68's comments. Not come across the use of any "special" running-in oils in commercially produced engines.

As others have said, the primary advantages of fully synthetic oils is the high temperature stability and the potential for longer service intervals (the 2 things are connected in some respects).

The SV doesn't "need" these qualities, especially if you are of a mind like most owners to treat the bike to pretty frequent oil/filter changes.

Also as said earlier the test standard specifically for wet-clutches is JASO-MA. Although owners have used certain non "bike specific" oils (e.g. someone used semi-synth oil from Vauxhall/GM dealers I seem to recall), if you want peace of mind, stick to a JASO-MA approved oil.

Also DO NOT use aftermarket additives in the oil. Most of them contain only the same stuff that the oil companies put in as a balanced additive pack to provide the appropriate wear/corrosion/degradation protection. Some can also promote skidding in ball/roller bearings (as in the gearbox). Just use a well known brand oil, it does the job.

Semi-synthetic technology does offer advantages over straight mineral oil in that it achieves some of the stability properties from the fundamental molecule structure rather than relying on additives to the same extent.

Semi-synthetic 10W-40 bike oil to JASO-MA, you won't go far wrong.

I use synthetic Mobil1 in my car for the service interval (it costs little over half UK price in French supermarkets!)

Break-in is an often discussed topic!

There are different views, but FWIW here's the industry approach.
It's a controlled wear process, mainly for the bores+rings to achieve the optimum surface condition for oil consumption, blowby, and maximum service life.
Sliding speed is the most important parameter, and load (= throttle opening) is second.
For the first hour or 2 (say 100mls), keep the engine speed to the recommended range.
Then gradually use greater throttle openings briefly while keeping revs controlled.
Progressively increase the rev range you use at small throttle opening, while using more throttle at lower revs. Gradually work your way up the rev/load range.
By first service (600mls, around 10-15hrs), you should be using generous amounts of throttle through the gears, and ideally up to say 3/4 max revs.
After that you'll not do any harm to the engine, indeed you really need to use big throttle openings and take it up to high revs regularly in order to achieve a full break-in.
In industry a full development engine break-in would be at most 10hrs, and at the end it would be held at max power for 30mins typically.

Okay, thanks for all the replies guys. I sense a bit of caution about the use of fully synthetic oil, mainly during the running-in period. The websites of Mobil, Rock Oil, Bel-Ray, Royal Purple, Shell, Amsoil, etc. all highly recommend it in motorbikes, specially V-engine types, where the rear cylinders get hotter (though water-cooling in the SV will even this out compared to say, a Harley). There's been so much lab testing etc. that shows the superiority of fully synthetic oil, that I plan to offer my new SV as a road test rig in the following way:

Run the bike on the standard factory fitted oil until the first service (to ensure a proper rate of wear and bedding in), then switch to a JASO MA full synthetic big brand name oil permanently, or until something changes my mind (see below). I hope to see reduced fuel consumption, a smoother running motor, less wear (specially on cold days during the first few minutes) and a cleaner motor on the inside. I also hope to find no clutch slippage. I will stick to the normal oil/filter change schedule. If the motor starts to burn oil, smoke, or the clutch starts to slip, I will switch to a semi-synthetic and report my findings here.

Jon.

Can I give my predictions on what your findings are likely to be?

Reduced fuel comsumption, pretty unlikely.
Smoother running, possibly, though I doubt a noticable effect.
Less wear, you won't know till alot of miles are on the bike.
Cleaner motor, the oil doesn't get very dirty between standard services.
You won't get clutch slippage with JASO MA.

I very much doubt it'll start burning oil until you've put some serious miles on, unless you mess up the running in, of course.

Can I suggest you hold off switching to fully synth till about 1500 miles.

btw, I use fully synth in mine. I only bought it because they didn't have a semi-synth in the shop at the time.

This is more an anecdotal story than anything but my SV was run in on the factory oil for the first 650 miles and has had 4 full oil changes since, all mobile 1 fully synth. Now at nearly 11,000 miles there's no hint of engine or clutch problems. Runs like a dream, starts first time, doesn't drink oil and seems to return a decent MPG.