Clutchless shifting

Towards the end of last summer I started doing clutchless upshifts at higher RPM in higher gears. I stopped doing it over winter (to scared on slippy roads). As the weather is now back to near-perfect, I started practicing doing them again.

Firstly I noticed I was a lot smoother doing them than last year, winter riding has obviously helped there. However, I notice that at lower revs in the lower gears it is either jerky (surges forward as well as feeling rough) or the lever refuses to budge. I didn't have the confidence to try in lower gears last year, but would like to learn now.

Changing 5->6 and 4->5 are very smooth, 3->4 is a litte bit jerky compared to the higher gears, but just about bearable. 2->3 is very jerky and 1->2 I haven't managed yet (don't want to yank the gear lever off trying )

Only thing I can think of is that I tend to change up a little bit earlier in the rev range for 1-2 and 2-3 than other gears, but even so not by much. Would this affect it?

Some questions:

Am I right in thinking I should be revving reasonably hard and then easing off the throttle a split second before changing up?

Also, how far should I close the throttle, it seems to be smoother when I just roll off a bit, rather than close the throttle entirely, is this right?

Are you only meant to clutchless upshift in higher gears and at very high revs (it seems the deeper into the powerband I go, the smoother the upshift)? I was under the impression it could be done in any gear.

Thanks in advance folks. Feel free to mock my lack of knowledge/skill on the matter

well my i am not really the best person on clutches,
but i close the throttle fully for sec while i change up/down i can do it in any gear just a question of learning where the revs need to be before changing it does take time 7 months before i fuly got the hang of it. & if the leaver wont move easily dont force it cos u will skid, i find when doing it right the leaver just needs a slight nudge.

I just shut the throttle when doing it, its only shut for a short time anyway. I wouldn't do it 1->2 at high revs, because i'd hate to put it in neutral at 10k with a full open throttle! I don't think it does any harm when done right, in fact i've heard some people say it slows wear on the clutch, which is logical, but i'm not 100%

Originally Posted by Saint Matt

I just shut the throttle when doing it, its only shut for a short time anyway. I wouldn't do it 1->2 at high revs, because i'd hate to put it in neutral at 10k with a full open throttle! I don't think it does any harm when done right, in fact i've heard some people say it slows wear on the clutch, which is logical, but i'm not 100%

I've heard if done right it doesn't hurt the bike and judging by how smooth it is changing into the top 2 gears, I could well believe it. I don't think my current 'lurching' changes in lower gear can be doing it much good though

[fizzwheel]

You dont need to be revving reasonable hard I find I can shift up without the clutch and it be nice and smooth from about 3000rpm upwards

You are correct just roll of the throttle a little bit prod the lever and bobs is your mothers brother. I havent found it necessary to shut the throttle completely. Just make sure you are positive in the movement of the gear lever.

I also find that preloading the gear lever by sticking my boot under it and putting a little pressure on it before I am ready to change will also give a smoother upshift to.

As for what gear and when, depends how I am riding. I've found that if I choose to I dont need the clutch to change from any gear up to any gear. I think its just practice at the end of the day, your right though changing between first and 2nd is jerky without the clutch but it can be done

HTH

Originally Posted by fizzwheel

I also find that preloading the gear lever by sticking my boot under it and putting a little pressure on it before I am ready to change will also give a smoother upshift to.

Yeah, i tried that also, it makes it much easier to learn how much you need to shut the throttle because as soon as you're there it wil snick up a gear. I found it too much to concentrate on though, but hey, i'm simple

[fizzwheel]

Originally Posted by Saint Matt

Yeah, i tried that also, it makes it much easier to learn how much you need to shut the throttle because as soon as you're there it wil snick up a gear. I found it too much to concentrate on though, but hey, i'm simple

It also stops you from missing a shift

I've been trying to do this, but every time ends in total failure.

I concentrate on getting the revs right and my fingers close on the clutch.
I concentrate on my fingers and my foot won't move.

I think I've been riding too long and I'm hard wired.

I can do it ok on upshifts only 4-5 and 5-6. Better at higher revs.

Don't do it much............. maybe I have too much mechanical sympathy

Originally Posted by fizzwheel

I also find that preloading the gear lever by sticking my boot under it and putting a little pressure on it before I am ready to change will also give a smoother upshift to.

That's the easiest way.
If you've got a fair amount of throttle on, put some pressure under the gear lever and when you want to change just the merest easing off of the throttle will let the gear change.