Help needed re potentially sticky insurance issue

My other half got given a producer today, and so got on the phone to Carole Nash to chase up the insurance cover note, which they still hadn't sent after c. 3 weeks. However when he got through, they told him that they had no record of him taking out cover - thus leaving him uninsured.

As background - with the Gixxer off the road after an accident, he bought an XT660 to tide him over until the insurance guys had time to assess the damage, etc. He had called Carole Nash to add the XT to his existing Gixxer policy, they took payment and was told that he was covered for the new bike from that day. However apparently the payment was not processed (not for any reason that we can understand, i.e. there were funds available) and the policy was not set up. We received no notification to this effect, and Carole Nash are now denying that we even called them to take the cover out.

We're currently going through phone records to try and find evidence that a call was made to Carole Nash, and it's also been suggested that we try the bank to see if any attempt was made by them to put a payment through. But aside from that, we're totally dependent on Carole Nash to come up with evidence, and it isn't in their interests to find proof that they stuffed up!

The only alternative that I could see was that if the XT were in my name, his Gixxer policy (which is fully comp and includes third party cover on bikes owned by other people) would cover him. However now the insurers are saying that this cover only exists if the other bike is already insured by someone else. WTF? My policy has this too and I read the whole policy document (I know! saddo that I am...) and didn't see anything to this effect...

Anyway, does anyone have any ideas here? starting to get desperate!!

The only thing in our favour is that he has cover on his other bike and car, which shows that he isn't the sort of person to drive without insurance. So they might be more lenient, but I can't see a court letting him off without more proof. And beside WTF should he take points and a fine for Carole Nash's mistake??

[Spiderman]

I'd make sure i found the piece of paper where i wrote down the time and date and name of the person who i spoke to to take out the cover etc.

I'm having a similar problem with my agro with TMobile.

You can, under the Data Protection Act, apply for your records and this should include the log of calls you made to them and any comments they made at the time of the call. Should being the operative word here.

You need to contact Carol Nash and ask for their Data Protection Policy to be sent to you (if they have one to send, TMobile dont) and ask for the details of their Data Protection Registrar, tho he may well have a diffrent job title. TMobile calls theirs the Information Officer or something silly. You also have to send the £10 for the info to be released.
This may or may not show a record of the call from the day but its very dependant on thier call system i understand. TMObiles, for example, willonly record a call and leave a "digital footprint" if the operator who takes the call makes any changes to you file or records any comments. Even if they look at your file and take you thru the security questions its not enough to leave a footprint.

Recently i've got into the habit of asking them to make a note of a random comment i make like "These shoes are very tight" can you please write that in my file. You can understand how unhelpful they are at this point as they know what youre up to. Ive even ha one gu say "Dont tell me how to do my job or what comments i should make" just before he hung up on me. Imagine my suprise when i called back and found out their computers had no record of the call minutes ago cos the guy had made no changes or notes before he hung up on me

sorry for the waffle, but HTH some.

[SoulKiss]

Hmmm tricky one that.

Does he have legal cover on the Gixxer?

If so, then it MIGHT be possible to get proper legal advice on this one.

For the record, most reputable insurance companies/brokers get Covernotes out same day - I went with H&R nr Aberdeen, spoke to them last Thursday and had my application form AND cover note on Saturday morning - Infinity needed the CN to get it taxed.

So after a week I would have thought a call would have been in order - note I am not having a go at you here, just thinking what Plod might think/say - may be worth having a story about how your other half assumed you had got the mail that day and filed it away, and vice-versa - tho to be honest I wouldnt bother - in this case being completely straight with Mr Plod may be for the best.

I think the precedent shown - that he actually has a bike with insurance (the Gixxer) and car insurance that he might get away with it.

Try Citizens Advice, also if either of you work for a big company there may be a "support line" for employees - these usually have legal/financial people manning them (or you can be referred to one) and are usually quite good but also confidential.

Good to meet you the other night btw - hope this works out ok

David

Oh another thought - were you there with him when he called Carole Nash - also they probably recorded the call - now if that is a digital system (ie to Hard Disk rather than Tape) then it may come under the Data Protection act.

Also their computer systems MAY log when someone accesses a policy - maybe not if it wasn't to make a change - but those logs may show something, again a Data Protection issue, although to be honest I cant see why they would do a cover up.

[BillyC]

For Carole Nash not to even make a record of the phone call is unacceptable. They are an insurance company with customers, and should take note every single time you call them - that's why you quote your policy number.

This company are getting lower and lower in my estimation of them. IMO they spend too much time trying to flog you an alarm you don't need and could buy elsewhere.

Good luck... phone records are a start, but also you should be able to have a go at them and get yourself covered retrospectively. The customer is always right.

He should get insurance cover straight away. This way the police may belive his story and let him away with it. Responsible citizen shocked at not being insured immediatly takes out cover sort of thing.
A similar thing happened to a work mate many years ago. Got a producer and then discovered his MOT was well out of date. He MOT'd the car and took the documents to the police station where they were checked and off he went. The police didn't seem to bother (or perhaps didn't notice) that the MOT was dated after the producer was handed out.

Whatever cource of action you decide apon good luck.

cheers

Stewart

[northwind]

Tricky one... Phone records, definately- that puts the ball back in Carole Nash's camp, if you can say "This was agreed on X date at X time".

I can't remember for sure how this works with English law... In Scotland, verbal contracts are enforcable, so if they say on the phone "We'll take payment and cover you", and then fail to take payment, it's their obligation to inform you. But I think this is different for yourselves. I suspect the current FSA specifies that the contract isn't concluded until the payment schedule is agreed and initiated.

Here's the thing though, it doesn't actually hurt CN to help you out here. If you pitch your approach to them right, it's "Mix-ups happen, we only want to rectify the situation" not "You've ****ed up now fix it". Getting cover in place right now, as's been said, is a good idea, and speaking to a supervisor or manager at CN (they're usually good for this) and looking to get some written confirmation of the dispute- not even getting it "fixed" but setting out what's happened- would be a big help.

And personally, while all the DPA comments are totally correct, I wouldn't be getting into that unless forced to it- it puts you right back into "You've ****ed up".

Good luck!

Originally Posted by northwind

I can't remember for sure how this works with English law... In Scotland, verbal contracts are enforcable, so if they say on the phone "We'll take payment and cover you", and then fail to take payment, it's their obligation to inform you. But I think this is different for yourselves. I suspect the current FSA specifies that the contract isn't concluded until the payment schedule is agreed and initiated.

I know that the Sale of Goods Act quite clearly states that a contract is formed by either written or verbal agreement. I used this little nugget when buying my car, they had a new guy on the forecourt & he promised me a 12month warranty on my used car, when the garage normally only gives 3months. His boss wasn't too happy, because the new guy had admitted (before I mentionned Sale of Goods) infront of his boss & 2 other witnesses that he'd said 12months.

However, selling insurance MAY be different. Yes, they are technically selling a product, but it's nothing really tangable.

As nothy says, get written confirmation from CN that you at least thought you had insurance with them, and there is a dispute on going. Mr Plod will give a little leaway & probably extend the producer deadline until the issue is resolved one way or the other.
Maybe I should add it to my sig, but as always, seek legal advice

When you say that they took payment and said you were covered. How was payment made??
For them to say that you were covered from that day then they must have processed something!!!!

[Stu]

As Northy more or less said. This is for a producer, not trying to obtain insurance after an accident (FFS), so I would have hoped CN would be more helpful. Your best bet is your itemised phone bill to help CN out with the time you called so they can check the records (as I believe you are doing).
Good luck.

I feel your pain. I had an accident and only when I took my bike to the dealer did I notice that it wasn't taxed. Of course, the new 'dvla computer system means you can't escape hahahahaha' adverts made me assume I was taxed, and I honestly hadn't checked it, ever, as with a car and two other bikes, you don't notice one without tax.

I'd bought it from the dealer (alvins - now gone), whose responsibility it was to inform the dvla of a change of ownership. Not mine. And when the retax form came through to them again, rather than contact me to tell me, they sorned it. Really. Even though I was in there at least once a month.

Anyway, I went to the dvla and explained the situation, apologising, and asking for help, and a nice lady back taxed it for me. So maybe if you are really nice to CN they will back insure it for you. I know this doesn't make up for their incompetence, but it would get it sorted.