Back protector news-you must read!

I just took the standard floppy foam back thing out of my Hein Gericke leathers AND my all weather jacket and they're BOTH certified CE to EN1621-2. This is the highest level that they do. It's found on the Forcefield Pro L2 and the Knox Contour (higher level than the ricochet!!!). I'm a very happy boy as I was literally going to buy one of these two within the next few days. £80 not now spent. Now I'm just gonna get a belt.

It's funny cos the only reason I had it out was so I could throw the liner in the wash. That's what I call good luck eh?!

If you're thinking about getting a back protector then check yours.

The only drawback is that they're probably only good for one good impact, but I think anyone would have a good look at their armour after a bad off.

I'm gonna look into the rest of my armour now.

If I'm being completely stupid here can someone advise me (I've had a couple of Scrumpy Jacks).

Also check this out: http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache...lnk&cd=5&gl=uk

It's from over the pond but it seemed very knowledgeable.

[rictus01]

OK think bout it, you're saying you trust your spine to the cheapest thing they could use to get through a test ? and you really want to do that? the minimum standard to pass a test doesn't mean they are the same.

Example:- some of the cheap helmets carry the same tested standard mark as an Arai or Shoei, but I wouldn't be here if they were the same.

If you must retain your inbuilt armour (and let's not forget in textiles it moves about unlike a dedicated back protector) then at least get one of the upgrade kits from knox, it's only a few £.

But Hey the choice is yours, I'm sure you can find something to justify your veiwpoint if that keeps you happy, me I'll stick to what I know works.

Cheers Mark.

By definition a "standard floppy foam thing" isn't going to give much in the way of protection - I'd view it more as something to keep you comfortable whilst lying there waiting for the ambulance

Your choice, your back

Originally Posted by rictus01

If you must retain your inbuilt armour (and let's not forget in textiles it moves about unlike a dedicated back protector) then at least get one of the upgrade kits from knox, it's only a few £.

It depends on the quality of the textiles I would say, the armour in my textiles does not move around anymore than it should and really does the job. Even the rep from Knox agreed that the armour in my textiles was just as good as Knox stuff and that I didn't need to change.

Also, I think you should ask yourself "If this piece of foam passes "the" test, how far does that test go, and would it actually save my back from damage"

The fact that it "passes" a test doesn't mean that it's going to do much to save your spine in an off; all it says is that it offers a certain level of protection (maybe better than having nothing at all).

I for one won't go for a serious ride without my back protector, unless I'm wearing my Sidi textile jacket, that has a "proper" protector fixed into the lining.

Like Mark says, it's your back....

Originally Posted by rictus01

OK think bout it, you're saying you trust your spine to the cheapest thing they could use to get through a test ? and you really want to do that? the minimum standard to pass a test doesn't mean they are the same.

Originally Posted by rictus01

OK think bout it, you're saying you trust your spine to the cheapest thing they could use to get through a test ? and you really want to do that? the minimum standard to pass a test doesn't mean they are the same.

Example:- some of the cheap helmets carry the same tested standard mark as an Arai or Shoei, but I wouldn't be here if they were the same.

If you must retain your inbuilt armour (and let's not forget in textiles it moves about unlike a dedicated back protector) then at least get one of the upgrade kits from knox, it's only a few £.

But Hey the choice is yours, I'm sure you can find something to justify your veiwpoint if that keeps you happy, me I'll stick to what I know works.

Cheers Mark.

You're all missing the point that it has passed LEVEL 2! which is the highest level i.e. it has more impact absorption than the knox richochet, stowaway and many more. Surely if it has been tested to the higher level and it's as snug to the body as can be by being fitted in a jacket then it'll give you the protection you need?

Originally Posted by Mr Toad

By definition a "standard floppy foam thing" isn't going to give much in the way of protection - I'd view it more as something to keep you comfortable whilst lying there waiting for the ambulance

Your choice, your back

I only called it the standard floppy thing cos I've seen it called that on here before and I think in certain leathers or textile jackets it's underated and should be looked at.

One question, the protection you've got, does it cover most of your back like a dedicated back protector?

Originally Posted by rictus01

Example:- some of the cheap helmets carry the same tested standard mark as an Arai or Shoei, but I wouldn't be here if they were the same.

How do you know this? I thought it was generally accepted that the price and quality of a helmet is all about fit, noise, comfort, pose etc above the basic safety standard?

Here you go Rich:

http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/ge...iew/index.html

If you don't mind some reading.

Teriyaki - I think you're missing the point. Your Hein Gericke might be CE certified to the highest certification standard, however don't confuse this with CE approval: your protection does not have CE approval rating.

This does (and just look at that styling!):

http://www.customlids.co.uk/textiles...nner_large.jpg

Seriously though, if you look at the Halvarssons' range, most of that has CE Approval.

Here's an excerpt I saved from the web - I can't find the reference though

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Products that don’t measure up to the EN1621-2 (Level 1 or Level 2) standard are unsafe and should be rendered obsolete. It is important, however, that consumers verify each product with the correct standard numbers; otherwise, consumers may be confused regarding what certification level the product is that they are purchasing, or may be purchasing outdated or obsolete items.


The EN1621-2 standard contains two levels that are considered passable. One transmits no more than 18 kN of force (LEVEL 1), and the other transmits no more than 9 kN (LEVEL 2), but both of these levels fall within that 1621-2 back protector standard. For example, Alpinestars states that the Tech Protector is 1621-2 approved but makes no claim of LEVEL 1 or Level 2 compliance.


To reinforce the previous explanation: What the consumer needs to know is that there are several different CE certification standards. There is the EN1621-1 standard that applies to shoulder,elbow and knee protection. There is, also, the EN1621-2 standard that comes in two levels, Level 1 and Level 2. EN1621-2 Level 1 transmits 18 kN of force through the product, from an initial impact force of 50kN, while EN1621-2 Level 2 transmits 9 kN of force through the product from an initial impact force of 50kN. The Level 2 certification literally transmits half the force through the product in comparison to Level 1.
The back protector standard (EN1621-2) can be either 18 kN for LEVEL 1 compliance or 9 kN for LEVEL 2 "high performance" compliance.


Dainese Backspace is made of an exclusive and innovative aluminum honeycomb construction, and has breathable polyurethane padding, and patented transversal joints on the waist. Its innovative structure, Backspace is extremely light, anatomical, and comfortable. It has undergone rigorous CE approval tests, which it surpassed with an average transmitted force of 15 kN or

LEVEL 1 certification.
Unfortunately, using aluminum as an inner core makes this armor a one time use armor. That is, once it has sustained an impact it must be replaced in order to offer the consumer the same absorption qualities as new.
Knox doesn't specify the level that any of their back protectors comply with, just that they are approved to the appropriate EN1621-2 standard.

Knox refers to improper use of CE claims by other companies. They don't name names, but it appears to be in response to Bohn's non-certified CE labeling practice. Bohn uses a CE label without actually being certified. Bohn also does not specify which standard they are referring to in their marketing statements of "exceeding CE specs" or "built to European CE standards." An article on the Knox site implies that unnamed companies are being sued for improperly using the CE mark and not complying with the proper specs for back protectors. I cannot find any actual information that directly refers to Bohn or the standards that Bohn allegedly meets or exceeds.


Spidi offers two families of CE approved back protectors, the Airback and Warrior. I noticed a difference in information and the photos of the Spidi Warrior protectors on the Spidi US website vs. the Italian (English version). The mid and lower back versions of the new Warrior protectors are listed only on the Italian site, and are CE 1621-2 LEVEL 1 approved. The US Spidi website shows a Warrior protector that looks different than the Warrior protectors on the Italian site, and the literature about these protectors is very different as well.


The US site does not state that the Warrior protectors are compliant with the CE back protector standard EN1621-2, just that the they are compliant with the CE Directives for PPE (Personal Protective Equipment), which have nothing to do with the actual standards and testing performance of the equipment. The Directives are simply an ethics code and basis for testing procedures and standards operations. Suspicious? It certainly appears that way, and the price of the US version leads to that assumption as well.


Impact Armor protectors make no claims of CE certification. They offer testimonials from unpaid professional racers, but nothing in the way of proven results of crash worthiness or protective levels.


Fieldsheer claims their X20 back protector exceeds all CE standards leaving the specifics to the imagination, and leaving you to hope they meet the back protector Level 2 standards, but do not refer to the actual certification or standard that their protector has passed.


Kobe back protectors claim CE approval as well, but no mention of which standard is being referred to.


Joe Rocket's website says very little about their GPX back protector. It is not shown to be CE certified.


Helimot and Teknic (though they also sell Knox) are other brands that I have seen on the web, but make no specific claims of protective levels or performance results.

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