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Old 22-09-07, 12:58 AM   #1
Supervox
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Default What the hell is wrong with people ?

I've just heard this news story :-

A 10 yr old lad drowns after jumping into a pond to save his 8 yr old sister (she was rescued alive by fisherman) whilst 2 POLICE COMMUNITY SUPPORT OFFICERS stood by & did nothing other than radio for help !!

Further more, Assistant Chief Constable Dave Thompson, of Greater Manchester Police has stated that the 2 PCSO's acted correctly & that he fully supported their actions.

Detective Chief Inspector Phil Owen, of Wigan CID, said it would have been "inappropriate" for PCSOs, who are not trained in water rescue, to enter the pond.

Exactly how much training do you need to jump into a pond to help a drowning child ??

Now I realise that there may well be PCSO's who are fellow Orgers & if this next piece offends then I apologise in advance :-

IMHO we need to :-

(a) Get rid of the police officer 'wannabees' who like the uniform, belt kit, etc & get a kick out of patrolling around our towns

(b) Ensure those that remain (who genuinely do wish to serve their community) are trained for as many emergency situations as possible

The sort of (in)action highlighted by this case is JUST NOT ACCEPTABLE !!
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Old 22-09-07, 01:06 AM   #2
kitkat
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Default Re: What the hell is wrong with people ?

but its a bit like being a first aider. you cant just jump in to help. you have to make sure its safe before doing so. maybe police had been told the same. if they are not trained in water rescue or maybe not strong swimmers they would not have been a lot of help to kid
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Old 22-09-07, 01:22 AM   #3
Davies
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Default Re: What the hell is wrong with people ?

We were discussing this at Frith tonight....

Sorry kitkat but I disagree, if I saw a kid drowing in a pond I'd jump in and try to save them, end of....not stand at the edge going "oooh, not been trained for this so not going to help". I think these PCSOs were thinking about the whole "Health and Saftey" cr@p that this country has unfortunatley been taken over by. Bunch of @rse IMO, people need to wake up and act on instinct, not stop and think about the possible consequences if they get it wrong.

HTH
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Old 22-09-07, 01:37 AM   #4
kitkat
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i dont know what i would do. if one of my own kids - wouldnt hesitate. but a stranger i dont know, im not a strong swimmer and worry that i would not be able to help, get into danger myself and leave my kids without a parent. its one of those occasions that you dont know how you would react until in that situation. i would love to say that i would not hesitate to leap to rescue but my fear of water is very strong. would more likely wade in and take 20 min to get to them. hopefully will never have to make that decision.
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Old 22-09-07, 02:05 AM   #5
melody
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Default Re: What the hell is wrong with people ?

For me. it would depend on how deep the water is.

Seeing as it's a pond, I can only assume that my feet would be touching the bottom of the pond, in which case I'd definitely jump in and try to help.

However, if it was a deep pool of water then my jumping in would be futile as I cannot swim.

Perhaps these PCSO's couldn't swim?
But if it was just a case of 'Health and Safety' blah blah then I think they should have jumped in and tried to help.
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Old 22-09-07, 02:36 AM   #6
stewie
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I beleive it was a gravel pit the size of a football pitch, gravel pits tend to be deep, plus it has been reported that when the pcso,s arrived the boy was not to be seen and was under water probably already dead, its a terrible shame of course but thats whats been reported up here tonite
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Old 22-09-07, 02:49 AM   #7
nickj
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Sorry but i don't understand.

From what some of you are saying, i'll stand there and make sure it's safe before i jump in.

Anyone who thinks about this is not a parent and if they are ever in this situation will wish they are never a parent afterwards coz trust me the first time you look at your kid/nephew/grandkid etc and knew someone stood there and watched you will never let it go

Me personally I would rather try everything i could to save a person regardless of age then worry what would of happened if i jumped in. The what if would be a lot worse in my book
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Old 22-09-07, 04:01 AM   #8
SteveH
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Default Re: What the hell is wrong with people ?

Guys I understand where you lot are coming from but things need to be cleared up first
1) there was no sign of the kid when they arrived, or how long he had been under water
2) these ppl are not trainned in water rescue, some police can't even swim
3) "pond" was no pond as in your back garden type thing this was deeper then a swimming pool, ex gravel site


Now you arrive knowing what you know now
Still jump in risking your life? over a job you get payed £20k ish a year

I have a one year old daugther at home , which means I no longer think about myself now

P,s not everyone reacts the same ,you can't expect someone to risk their life like you would
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Old 22-09-07, 04:45 AM   #9
Brian
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Ok, the only info I have on this is what has been said here in the forum.

In my oppinion, Kitkat does speak sense, you cannot just jump in willy-nilly.
It's VERY easy to say "i'd jump in" etc, but reality tends to come as a shock especialy when you're not prepared or trained for it.

If you're not trained for this kind of eventuality then something like this will shock you to the core!
I doubt very much that the PCSOs were standing there thinking about health and safety and job protocols etc.
The PCSOs were quite probably in a state of shock and panic and we all know what that can do to people, especialy untrained/inexperienced people.

You'd be surprised how fast you drown, all it takes is one lungful of water, you're unconcious and you sink like a stone, it can happen in much less than a minute.

When someone is in the midst of drowning, they're panicing like crazy, thrashing away, grabbing hold of and rescuing someone who is drowning is very difficult, especially 2 people, chances are they'll pull you down under the water as you're trying to grab hold of them, all this while trying to stay bouyant and swimming yourself, not even taking into consideration the water temperature and many other factors.

I bet 100% of people would love nothing more than to save someones life in a situation like this, even the PCSOs would probably of said they'd think nothing of jumping in a similar situation, reality though is a different story.
When something like this is happening to 'you' it's a shocker.

I remember once travelling home on a double decker bus with my mother on the way home from my nans about 9pm (I was around 8-9yo).
It was pretty much a full bus and we were sitting upstairs, sitting in the middle of the deck.
All of a sudden there was a metallic "clink" sound and the man/woman just behind me to my left in the opposite isle burst into flames from his/her lap to head.
Now in hindsight, it would of been very easy for someone to think "ok, i'll take off my jacket etc and just smother the flames, problem solved".
What actually happened was, everyone panicked and ran off the bus, I remember this well as I was literally trampled in the rush.
The strangest thing I remember about that is the man/woman didn't even make sound, it was all very quiet... Anyway, I digress.

Anyway, the point i'm trying to make is that it's unfair to label the two PCSOs as incompetent or what ever, infact uniform dosn't even come into it.
What it comes down to is the "mindset" of the people in the uniform, those PCSOs are just the same as everyone else, quite possibly with children of their own and would loved to of saved the drowning children, but they just didn't have the mindset to think calmly and act accordingly.

Yes there are some PCSOs who get a kick out of the uniform etc, but there are other PCSOs who really do care about the community.

This is really a long winded way of saying, some people have what it takes, some don't, unfortunatley the PCSOs didn't the fishermen did.

Supervox, about 4 mins ago whilst typing this I heard on the radio "exactley"what Assistant Chief Constable Dave Thompson said, and I've never ever heard such a cold/heartless statment said before.
I'm not saying this to avoid confrontation with you or anything but I do agree 100% with the points you make.
But I find it hard to belive that two individuals/PCSOs stood by and watched 2 children drowning, people can't do that, can they?!?!?

What would I of done in that situation?!
I don't know, but i'd like to think I try to save them.

**Edit**

Ok i'm now listening to the whole story on Talksport so most of what i've written is now defunkt, the two children were collecting tadpoles from a pond apparently.
Now I seriously wouldn't think twice about saving them from a pond, now that is sick...
Now I can really see how bad this is and yes, the PCSOs did stand there and only radio for help... Jesus....
I had the mental picture of it being a gravel pit/quarry type thing...
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Old 22-09-07, 04:47 AM   #10
melody
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Default Re: What the hell is wrong with people ?

Given this extra information and this 'pond' is not quite my idea of a pond, I wouldn't jump in.

Not because I'm a non parent therefore incapable of that deep love that only a parent is able to feel ,
but because I'd drown as soon as I hit the water.

However, I wouldn't just stand around and watch. I'd do absolutely anything else I could to help.

How much I earn wouldn't come into the equation.

I'd like to think I'd act in a way that I'd hope someone else would, if it was my mother, brother, sister, nephew, neice etc in such a situation.

Last edited by melody; 22-09-07 at 04:51 AM.
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