Grip! - how much?

[johnnyrod]

I think this might be asking how long is a piece of string, but here goes anyway... I think there are some pretty switched on people here who might shed some light.

In short, how do racers manage to do faster laps when they have more grip, i.e. the tyres haven't gone off, or it's dried out a bit more than earlier? Maybe this is what the top ones get paid so much for, but how do you feel for the outer limits of grip? This sometimes isn't that far away on the road, with crappy surfaces and smoothed off bits where the lorries have been going, and all that. I'm trying not to develop paranoia, having lowsided a few times in my biking life (once with the bike ending upside down in a hedge about 3 feet off the ground, and my nose is still bent, the Motoliner could only fix the taco'd frame). The closest I had to a gentle slide without either falling off or over-reacting was laying a big black stripe out of Barn at Cadwell.... a few hours before I fell off at Park. I don't think it helped me though.

But anyway, I watch them zipping around on the telly and wonder how they "know" how much grip they have, i.e. how does it feel? Is there a boing as the suspension starts to unload? Is having my knee on the deck really going to make any difference? Do I just need bigger nuts and less of a compulsion to go in too fast and/or shut off/stand up the minute it twitches?

[G]

Personally I can feel exactly when the tyre is starting to loose grip, its something I have developed through driving cars and riding my bike. Cant explain it but theres just THAT point, where you know.

I also have (upto now - running to touch wood) a strange knack at being able to control slides, whether it be in a car or a bike......sooner or later I will push my luck but then I will have learnt another lesson and another boundary.

Its harder to judge grip levels on the road than on the track as there are so many variables on the road. However on track, not only can you get the tyres up to full/optimum/consistent working temp, but the track is the same every lap, coupled with the fact you have been round it so many times before - you KNOW how fast/hard you normally go into, round or out of a turn, you also know the amount of ‘slippage’ you normally get at that speed. If you don’t get this slippage (new/different tyre), then you feel you can push a bit harder - so go faster - simple as that?

the pro's have done many track laps and can judge it by the tyres response like if you power out of a corner too early and the back wheel slips and grips again, IMO its the front thats less forgiving once it slips theres less chance to regain control, i think its just down to practice but i would save the, wheres the limit tests for the track theres less chance of ending up under a car

when i went down on the wales rideout it was the front that let go and down she went ive been round corners quicker than that with my knee on the ground and to this day i still dont know why it happen'd?

i tend to find a good stomp on the ground helps with front wheel grip loss. hurts your foot a bit but save the bike and yourself. worked a couple of times with me.
thing is with on the road, there are so many different types of tarmac out there its hard to know exactly where the limit is. but you will find the point of "no return" as it were. where you know if you pass that point you are going down.

Originally Posted by riktherider

i tend to find a good stomp on the ground helps with front wheel grip loss. hurts your foot a bit but save the bike and yourself. worked a couple of times with me.
thing is with on the road, there are so many different types of tarmac out there its hard to know exactly where the limit is. but you will find the point of "no return" as it were. where you know if you pass that point you are going down.

that comes natural if your used to riding off road i had to do it on the same rideout on a gravel patch round a corner, didn't think about it it just went down like a reflex

Aye i had the same on a switchback once where the front started to give and instinctively put my foot down to save the bike, which I think I learnt from my mountain biking days

Originally Posted by graemepaterson

Personally I can feel exactly when the tyre is starting to loose grip, its something I have developed through driving cars and riding my bike. Cant explain it but theres just THAT point, where you know.

I also have (upto now - running to touch wood) a strange knack at being able to control slides, whether it be in a car or a bike......sooner or later I will push my luck but then I will have learnt another lesson and another boundary.

Its that feeling in the pit of your bum, lol, i developed it from a year ir two of falling off lol, seems to be the best way to learn imho.... maybe not the cheapest tho

[johnnyrod]

Quite timely this, this was posted yesterday:
http://forums.superbikeschool.com/in...?showtopic=877

I do struggle with consistency on the track (spend 3/4 of the day getting up to speed), and as you all rightly say, on the road things change too much to be able to get much repetition in riding it. I never really expected a magic answer, but perhaps a few hints on what this means to you. What does Greame feel? Is it Lyle's sphincter creaking? Am I being ham-fisted and charging from grip to falling off zone in one hit? I think this may be the case, also maybe the Keith Code article is right in that I've put a lot of effort into beefing up the suspension and tyres for maximum grip that it's all beyond what I can ride properly with what skills I have (hmm).

Any more? Sarah? Rob?