Sick Leave Policy?

I took a call from HR about a member of my team who has had a number of incidences of sick this year. All unrelated and all genuine.

(HR make us do a return to work interview after each occasion of sick, even if it is only a day)

So the lady informs me that it is a cause for concern and that I should have a chat to this person and let them know that if it persists it will become disciplinary.

I simply said "fine I am happy to deal with it, but first can you please point me in the direction of the particular procedure and policy document so I can familiarise myself with it, so if any questions arise I can give the correct answer".

The HR lady said she would find it and let me have it.

15 mins later I get a phone call telling me there is no written procedure for this, it's government law and the person is only entitled to SSP nothing more and is lucky they get full pay. I again question the government law bit and she then says "or best practise".

Again I asked for some written guidance on this at which point she got really shirty with me and told me she would report it to the HR director. I invited her to do so and said "I would be happy to get an e-mail listing what I need to do"......

I didn't really think too much about it other than to wrtie a polite e-mail explaining that I wasn't trying to be funny, but when it comes to discplinary procedures you have to know your stuff before going off on one.

Fast forward to today, she has forwarded my e-mail to the HR Director who wants to see me to explain things, I said that I would prefer something in writing I can refer to if required.

Next stop b*ll*cking from my Director for being awkward - am I?

If they want to use a disciplinary procedure do they not need these policies and procedures in place?

[dizzyblonde]

You mention HR....enough said
You are correct in making sure you have your facts straight about company policy and government 'guidelines' , you wouldn't want your employee to make you look like a pillock, if you haven't done your homework, if your unfamiliar with it all.

HR......well it is where I work

you were asking scary questions, one to which HR were struggling to answer. you - imho - weren't being awkward you were making sure you had the answers to the potential questions you may be faced with

if you get a rollicking i'd be extremely cheesed if i were you!!

you get a keithd thumbs up lenny

[fizzwheel]

It needs to be written down in your company handbook, or laid out in the employee's job contract what the policy and disclinary procedure is.

In the position of your employee if you took me to disclinary for my sickness and I asked where it was written down and you couldnt show me then I'd be telling you to shove it.

I dont think you were being awkward, sounds like your HR department need to sort themselves out.

I wouldnt loose any sleep over it.

[flymo]

Originally Posted by krhall

Next stop b*ll*cking from my Director for being awkward - am I?

If they want to use a disciplinary procedure do they not need these policies and procedures in place?

I think you did exactly the right thing although I have no idea exactly how you said what you said If the HR person perceives that you are being awkward then its possible that they genuinely beleive that.

I've often had feedback myself that I sometimes come across as agressive or blunt just because of the way I repsond to questions. At the same time though I've had positive feedback that I often ask the awkward questions that others are too afraid too, cant win.

I do think though that your HR department should have clear guidelines outlining how these situations should be dealt with. I dont agree in favours were the employee is 'lucky' to get something, they are either entitled to it under legislation or company policy , or not.

We have a particularly good HR department although I think it depends more on the HR employee you are working with.

Stay calm and ask them to help you do this properly, how can they complain if you do that?

[dizzyblonde]

IF you were to ask my employer for the rule book on this someone, somewhere would be able to give you one. In this day and age of health n safety, PC, compo claims culture, it is vital that a company has these procedures written somewhere. I can imagine they could get into a lot of trouble if not.
My other half has just spent a couple of weeks walking round the factory, taking photos and re-writing the 'standard operating procedures' for various machines. Its there for everyone to see, so if you do something stupid, the company has back up..I shoud imagine it is exactly the same for 'sick leave' and 'disciplinary procedures'

[Mr Speirs]

Disiplinary proceedures are very tricky things to handle as a manager and to carry out any disiplenary action you should be properly clued up as getting it wrong will leave yourself wide open for investigation by the union representatives.

I had to do a lot of these absense meetings and hand out some diseplinarys actions in a job I held a few years ago and because I was very young people would question absolutely every I did and said to try and prove me to not be carrying out proper proceedure. I spent a very long time investigating and learning regulations and still didn't know it all, but enough so as not to put myself in any dubious situations.

Disiplinary proceedures have to be part of the company handbook and most of the time written into peoples contracts. Therefore they should have proper written guidelines for the employees to know.

In other words, go back to HR and tell them they are rubbish at their jobs, and if they haven't got a major thing like this in writing, then what else haven't they covered as a HR department.

Sounds proper rubbish, but then most HR dept are rubbish (from my experience).

I've rarely found a HR dept to be all in the "know" as a "team" compared to an IT department. IT has to know everything, HR seems to have individuals that know bits n bobs, but combined together it all goes scatty.

Give your HR team a written warning. When they question it simply tell them that you followed the disciplinary procedure that's in your head; suggest to them that if they're at all unhappy with a disciplinary procedure held in people's heads they're welcome to take the company to an employment tribunal where they'll probably win substantial damages.

Or do you think that's too subtle for them?

Of course there should be some kind of written down guidelines. If you were to ask a policeman what you had done wrong he could show you where it is written down. If HR get more shirty, go over their head, that'll annoy them