carb set-up for Quill T3 - SV650.org

02-12-04, 03:37 PM

Has anyone out there set up a pre-K model to run with a Quill T3 and a BMC filter? I know the carburation is supposed to be standard with T3's but, A) "Supposed to be" doesnt necessarily mean it is and, B) I'm not entirely sure what standard set-up is, as when I got mine (A 2000 "Y" model) it was set up for the Quill race pipe that was then on it and the BMC filter that's still in it.
I've put what I know is the standard main jet (137.5) back in but I've still got a huge hole (You couldnt possibly call it a mere flat spot) in the power band between 3,500 and 4,000 rpm, frequently accompanied by 8, 12 and even 16-stroking. My guess is that the needle needs adjusting, but where too? My Clymer manual appears to feel such information is best kept secret, its photographs arent quite clear enough to tell from them and, as the pictures are of a Californian model, they probably arent relevant anyway.
At present the clips are one notch short of the top. Where should they be?

Viney · 02-12-04, 04:10 PM

Move them back a notch so that 2 are showing to the top. also the slides may have been drilled. Also, it could be the filter. if you can get you hands on a std filter to check it will save a lot of hair pulling.

02-12-04, 04:35 PM

My slides havent been drilled and the jaw-dropping cost of a standard filter (Even my parts man was embarrassed by the price) puts me off buying one just as an experiment.

Viney · 02-12-04, 04:39 PM

£17 isnt dear for a filter!

Anyhoo, what BMC do you have? If you look elsewhere in here someone is having similar troubles as you with BMC and all that.

02-12-04, 07:22 PM

Seventeen quid for a filter!!! Where? Where?
My local dealer is talking nearly double that plus vodka and tonic! (Total cost approaching forty quid)

And, apart from that, I have to say that it doesnt surprise me that someone else has asked similar questions elsewhere. Half the questions on the forum are about various exhausts and how to set them up which means that finding the answers to specific questions, like mine, becomes a needle in a haystack job.

Does anyone other than me reckon it would be worth sub-dividing the technical forum into makes (Quill, Micron, CCC etc) to make everyone's like easier?

northwind · 02-12-04, 08:19 PM

Which BMC is going to be critical... The Street's effetively a reusable stock, the Race is a high-pass one with a snorkel, and the Race RS is a desnorkelled high-pass one. Without knowing what one you have, there's no way toguess whatjetting you'll need. I reckon your flatspot is from running lean, mind, if you want to try it I've got a set of DJ 140s sitting about that you can try out... And what worked with me and the CCC road legal, which I think is roughly equivalent, was the Renegade kit setup- which is IIRC Mikuni 140 mains, needles on the 3rd groove, 2 3/4 turns on the mix screws.

03-12-04, 12:45 PM

The BMC filter lacks a snorkel but, as it was in the bike when I got it, beyond that I'm guessing. The race can that was also on it and the suspension set-up that was so extreme it was virtually unrideable makes me think the previous owner used it as a track day toy(!) so I think it likely that the filter is the hairier of the two non-snorkel types.
With regards to your other comments, I agree that it feels as though its running too lean but logic says that when going from a free-flowing race can to a street-legal can any problems ought to be because its too rich. I've got an array of DJ jets in the kit that came with the bike so I shouldnt need your 140's (Thanks for the offer, though). Anyway, I think jet changes will merely be fine tuning. The big problem is obviously going to be overcome by needle adjustment.
I have to say I'm really looking forward to handling cold bits of metal out in my unheated shed with thick frost on the ground!

03-12-04, 08:58 PM

It just so happens I've a brand new BMC Race bought in error and I need the RS version to be compat with my setup. I'll do a swap if you want, it'll solve both our problems.

Andy.

northwind · 03-12-04, 09:07 PM

There's absolutely no way the guy before you was running it with a race can and a Race RS without fitting much bigger jets, I've just spent less than 20 miles with the Race RS and a race system and the mikuni 140s and it ran worse than you could imagine... So I reckon he's switched it back from whatever big-ass jet he had in, 150 at least, without really bothering himself what it ran like. No?

Anyway, DJ say that with a stock can and K&N, run 140s, and on pretty much any setting put the needles on the 3rd groove from the top. 3 turns on the mix screw. Now, that's with their needle, and that may affect things, but those sound like good figure to me, except maybe the jet size- RS is, IMHO, a much freer flowing filter than the K&N, and the Quill will be a little free than stock, so you might need to improvise...

04-12-04, 02:44 PM

First things first.
To Andy re filters.
As I didnt buy it, I'm only guessing its a Race RS because of the extreme way the rest of the bike was set up. It could just as easily be a Street and, whichever it is, it's getting pretty elderly and isnt too far short of needing replacement anyway. If we swapped you would feel extremely hard done-by, and with good reason.

Secondly to Northwind.
I'm afraid you couldnt be more wrong! With the 138's that were in it when I got it (Its me who's put the standard 137.5's back in as part of my attempts to get it to run properly with the T3) it ran like an absolute dream! It turned out vast quantities of torque from zilch revs, making coming out of a slow corner one of Life's Great Experiences, and pulled like a train from tick-over to redline. The nearest it got to a fault was a rough patch (It wasnt really bad enough to be called a vibration zone and it quite definitely wasnt a flat spot) which made motorway work a pain in the **** because it occurred between 70 and 90 in top, giving me a choice of staying in the slow lane with the Scanias or moving out to the fast lane and worrying about whether the blur in the mirror was a police car.
I absolutely loved it the way it was and I only got the T3 because the race pipe began to get noticeably louder a few weeks ago and didnt take long to become effectively unsilenced, capable of setting off burglar alarms just by riding down the street and guaranteed a pull by the first police car to get within range. As it's current MoT certificate expires in ten days time, drastic action needed to be taken.

02-12-04, 03:37 PM	#1
mikemm Guest Posts: n/a	carb set-up for Quill T3 Has anyone out there set up a pre-K model to run with a Quill T3 and a BMC filter? I know the carburation is supposed to be standard with T3's but, A) "Supposed to be" doesnt necessarily mean it is and, B) I'm not entirely sure what standard set-up is, as when I got mine (A 2000 "Y" model) it was set up for the Quill race pipe that was then on it and the BMC filter that's still in it. I've put what I know is the standard main jet (137.5) back in but I've still got a huge hole (You couldnt possibly call it a mere flat spot) in the power band between 3,500 and 4,000 rpm, frequently accompanied by 8, 12 and even 16-stroking. My guess is that the needle needs adjusting, but where too? My Clymer manual appears to feel such information is best kept secret, its photographs arent quite clear enough to tell from them and, as the pictures are of a Californian model, they probably arent relevant anyway. At present the clips are one notch short of the top. Where should they be?

02-12-04, 08:19 PM	#6
northwind Moderator Mega Poster Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: In the garage where I belong Posts: 17,083	Which BMC is going to be critical... The Street's effetively a reusable stock, the Race is a high-pass one with a snorkel, and the Race RS is a desnorkelled high-pass one. Without knowing what one you have, there's no way toguess whatjetting you'll need. I reckon your flatspot is from running lean, mind, if you want to try it I've got a set of DJ 140s sitting about that you can try out... And what worked with me and the CCC road legal, which I think is roughly equivalent, was the Renegade kit setup- which is IIRC Mikuni 140 mains, needles on the 3rd groove, 2 3/4 turns on the mix screws. __________________ "We are the angry mob, we read the papers every day We like what we like, we hate what we hate But we're oh so easily swayed"

03-12-04, 09:07 PM	#9
northwind Moderator Mega Poster Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: In the garage where I belong Posts: 17,083	There's absolutely no way the guy before you was running it with a race can and a Race RS without fitting much bigger jets, I've just spent less than 20 miles with the Race RS and a race system and the mikuni 140s and it ran worse than you could imagine... So I reckon he's switched it back from whatever big-ass jet he had in, 150 at least, without really bothering himself what it ran like. No? Anyway, DJ say that with a stock can and K&N, run 140s, and on pretty much any setting put the needles on the 3rd groove from the top. 3 turns on the mix screw. Now, that's with their needle, and that may affect things, but those sound like good figure to me, except maybe the jet size- RS is, IMHO, a much freer flowing filter than the K&N, and the Quill will be a little free than stock, so you might need to improvise... __________________ "We are the angry mob, we read the papers every day We like what we like, we hate what we hate But we're oh so easily swayed"

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02-12-04, 04:10 PM	#2
Viney Member Mega Poster Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: In the shadows to the left Posts: 7,700	Move them back a notch so that 2 are showing to the top. also the slides may have been drilled. Also, it could be the filter. if you can get you hands on a std filter to check it will save a lot of hair pulling.

02-12-04, 04:35 PM	#3
mikemm Guest Posts: n/a	My slides havent been drilled and the jaw-dropping cost of a standard filter (Even my parts man was embarrassed by the price) puts me off buying one just as an experiment.

02-12-04, 04:39 PM	#4
Viney Member Mega Poster Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: In the shadows to the left Posts: 7,700	£17 isnt dear for a filter! Anyhoo, what BMC do you have? If you look elsewhere in here someone is having similar troubles as you with BMC and all that.

02-12-04, 07:22 PM	#5
mikemm Guest Posts: n/a	Seventeen quid for a filter!!! Where? Where? My local dealer is talking nearly double that plus vodka and tonic! (Total cost approaching forty quid) And, apart from that, I have to say that it doesnt surprise me that someone else has asked similar questions elsewhere. Half the questions on the forum are about various exhausts and how to set them up which means that finding the answers to specific questions, like mine, becomes a needle in a haystack job. Does anyone other than me reckon it would be worth sub-dividing the technical forum into makes (Quill, Micron, CCC etc) to make everyone's like easier?

03-12-04, 12:45 PM	#7
mikemm Guest Posts: n/a	The BMC filter lacks a snorkel but, as it was in the bike when I got it, beyond that I'm guessing. The race can that was also on it and the suspension set-up that was so extreme it was virtually unrideable makes me think the previous owner used it as a track day toy(!) so I think it likely that the filter is the hairier of the two non-snorkel types. With regards to your other comments, I agree that it feels as though its running too lean but logic says that when going from a free-flowing race can to a street-legal can any problems ought to be because its too rich. I've got an array of DJ jets in the kit that came with the bike so I shouldnt need your 140's (Thanks for the offer, though). Anyway, I think jet changes will merely be fine tuning. The big problem is obviously going to be overcome by needle adjustment. I have to say I'm really looking forward to handling cold bits of metal out in my unheated shed with thick frost on the ground!

03-12-04, 08:58 PM	#8
snoopy Guest Posts: n/a	It just so happens I've a brand new BMC Race bought in error and I need the RS version to be compat with my setup. I'll do a swap if you want, it'll solve both our problems. Andy.

04-12-04, 02:44 PM	#10
mikemm Guest Posts: n/a	First things first. To Andy re filters. As I didnt buy it, I'm only guessing its a Race RS because of the extreme way the rest of the bike was set up. It could just as easily be a Street and, whichever it is, it's getting pretty elderly and isnt too far short of needing replacement anyway. If we swapped you would feel extremely hard done-by, and with good reason. Secondly to Northwind. I'm afraid you couldnt be more wrong! With the 138's that were in it when I got it (Its me who's put the standard 137.5's back in as part of my attempts to get it to run properly with the T3) it ran like an absolute dream! It turned out vast quantities of torque from zilch revs, making coming out of a slow corner one of Life's Great Experiences, and pulled like a train from tick-over to redline. The nearest it got to a fault was a rough patch (It wasnt really bad enough to be called a vibration zone and it quite definitely wasnt a flat spot) which made motorway work a pain in the **** because it occurred between 70 and 90 in top, giving me a choice of staying in the slow lane with the Scanias or moving out to the fast lane and worrying about whether the blur in the mirror was a police car. I absolutely loved it the way it was and I only got the T3 because the race pipe began to get noticeably louder a few weeks ago and didnt take long to become effectively unsilenced, capable of setting off burglar alarms just by riding down the street and guaranteed a pull by the first police car to get within range. As it's current MoT certificate expires in ten days time, drastic action needed to be taken.