was this jerk for real?

VIENNA (Reuters) - Historian David Irving, facing charges of Holocaust denial in an Austrian court on Monday, told reporters on his way into court he no longer questioned the fact that millions of Jews died in World War Two.

"I'm not a holocaust denier. Obviously, I've changed my views," said the 68-year-old maverick historian, who was arrested when he visited Austria in November to give a speech at a meeting of a right-wing student fraternity.

Holocaust denial is a crime in Austria which carries a prison term of one to 10 years. Austria issued an arrest warrant for Irving after remarks he made on a visit in 1989, but Irving said new documents had made him revise his views since then.

Irving's lawyer Elmar Kresbach told reporters his client would have to plead guilty, but that he would ask the court for leniency because Irving had changed his views and was no threat to Austria's democracy.

"History is a constantly growing tree -- the more you know, the more documents become available, the more you learn, and I have learnt a lot since 1989," Irving said.

"Yes, there were gas chambers," said Irving. "Millions of Jews died, there is no question. I don't know the figures. I'm not an expert on the Holocaust."

A British High Court ruling in 2000, rejecting Irving's libel action against an American professor and her publishers, declared Irving "an active Holocaust denier ... anti-Semitic and racist".

glad he's seen the light!

It was a fahionable thing in some academic circles in the 90's. God only knows why!

[quote="keithd"]

Holocaust denial is a crime in Austria which carries a prison term of one to 10 years. Austria issued an arrest warrant for Irving after remarks he made on a visit in 1989, but Irving said new documents had made him revise his views since then.

glad he's seen the light!

yeah, funny that a threat of 10 years inside can make you change your mind!

Originally Posted by David Irving

"I'm not an expert on the Holocaust."

No really ?? Well who would have thought......

[tinpants]

Whilst serving in Germany in the late 80's I was unfortunate enough to meet some people who dressed " differently" and held the most adamant view that The Holocaust was a figment of peoples imagination and it was the Russians, Brits, and Americans who had done it and not the Germans.

Quite amazing really, when on the ine hand you had people like Goerring and Hess who verified the "Final Solution" and others like Himmler and Goebbels who denied it. Even Albert Speer, the guy behind it all, didn't see what was wrong with it - although to be fair to him he did recant in later life. (Not that that makes it ok)

The people I met were probably what you would call ultra right -wing, or to be less pc about it- neo-nazis. They were all well educated, intelligent people. Don't figure really.

Generally speaking though, most Germans fully acknowledge what was done in their name, even if they don't like it. Its something that they all have to live with, and most would rather forget.

There's little doubt in my mind that those who deny the holocaust do so to support an extreme right wing agenda.

However it's a ludicrous situation to jail someone for 10 years for making absurb and unbelievable claims that the holocaust never happened. It strikes me that all you acomplish with this approach is to make martyrs and bring attention to a very small minority with an extreme agenda.

Much better to allow the likes of Irving to freely express (and have shot down in flames) his absurd and pathetic views.

[Biker Biggles]

Cronos----Exactly.
It shows an alarming lack of self esteem and self confidence that a modern democratic state needs to prosecute fringe loonies like this.Are you allowed to say the Earth is flat in Austria?Or the Government is wrong?

peple like this guy dont bother me. there are plenty of stupid people in this world that are trully powerless except in their own mind.

its when leaders of countries stand up and say things like this or say they want to see another country wiped off the face of the earth that bothers me.

What these people say is so completely absurdly incorrect, its just not worth bothering acknowledging their existence.

Ooh ooh... look at me, I am well spoken, and I am saying stupid things (which I myself probably dont believe) LOOK AT ME!!! Give me money now? Please?

How about we dont bother. How about we call you on that one, realise you are an attention *****, and an obscene one, and leave it at that. How does that sound.

I agree with you Trey, in the sense that its a bit more worrying when (and I suppose you are reffing Iran's comments about Israel) leaders say this. And, by implication admit to being bat**** insane.

Saying crazy things is one thing. But, when countries actually go out, and just sort of randomly blow other small countries into the stone age with brutal efficiency... ahem, this is even more worrying, no?

Originally Posted by Cronos

There's little doubt in my mind that those who deny the holocaust do so to support an extreme right wing agenda.

However it's a ludicrous situation to jail someone for 10 years for making absurb and unbelievable claims that the holocaust never happened. It strikes me that all you acomplish with this approach is to make martyrs and bring attention to a very small minority with an extreme agenda.

Much better to allow the likes of Irving to freely express (and have shot down in flames) his absurd and pathetic views.

Agree 100% with that. Although what he says is absolute rubbish he should be free to make his (ludicous) denials. If they contain statements that are deliberately aimed at stirring up hatred for Jews that's another issue, but denial in itself shouldn't result in a jail term.

Cheers Keith