over confident filtering - SV650.org

26-09-06, 08:32 AM

OK, I've been riding for 2 months now and I think I'm getting over confident with my filtering. The traffic was very heavy this morning so I was blasting up the middle right up to the roundabout. This left me in the middle of two cars waiting to pull out. It's quite a small roundabout and the car on my right was a nippy Peugeot 107. I caused the 107 to brake as I cut in front of it on the roundabout and I got beeped at.

So experienced riders - tell me, would you (a) just accelerate away harder, or (b) pull in behind the lead car at a roundabout?

I didn't accerelate away harder because it's a tight roundabout and the road was greasy (and I'm a newbie). Up to now I've been able to time it so that I can beat the car onto the roundabout but today it wasn't possible.

21QUEST · 26-09-06, 08:37 AM

It's all in the observation and your abilitie with regards to bike control.

Example if you are not too confident in the wet, then you give yourself a bit more time when pulling out. Someone like me(I dare say) would need less time.

Cheers
Ben

26-09-06, 08:39 AM

Nothing wrong with being confident mate, its just learning where and when to use it

Personally I feel a bit rude and unsafe pulling across cars onto a round about but usually cars will let you go first if you pull up far enough.

If the traffic is tight and its a small round about I usually push up to the front car and pull in behind it

If it's a big road/roundabout I'll wait for the front cars to pull out then move out with them keeping between them, sort of like a synchronised manouver thing

The latter confuses the hell out of some drivers though so It's upto you if you want to try it

At the end of the day though you just have to be aware people may pull out on you so don't hoon it too fast if you don't have a quick way out

26-09-06, 08:44 AM

If in doubt, don't do it. One mantra I repeat to myself whilst riding is "Never go where angels fear to tread."

If you found yourself second guessing you're riding, IMHO, it was a bad bit of riding that put you there. Only you know the situation, and only you know how to "correct" what you did to make yourself feel more comfortable.

Also, in that particular situation, I normally get to the middle of the lane before the roundabout, even if that means I'm a few cars behind the lead. Having said that, this morning, I could of easily been confused for a courier. Any available space was mine, and at times, I was inches away from cars. Yes it was risky, but my machine control & road conditions were up to scratch for the play in around 20mph. Or so I felt at the time. Maybe I was wrong, but at the end of the day, I didn't die, so I consider myself lucky enough to do the risk assesment another time.

26-09-06, 08:45 AM

thanks pyschocannon...interesting what you say. The roundabout in question is too tight to ride between cars so I may have to pull in behind the front car.

26-09-06, 09:50 AM

I've been riding a couple of years now, I always work on:

Advantage gained vs risk of bike damage/death/injury

THis normally rules out filtering on roundabouts (except massive multi lane ones, and even then muchos observation and caution)

Keep the speed down.

Have a plan, dont just go piling up the middle of two lines of cars. Be thinking
What will I do if the lights change ?
What does the road do up ahead ?
What is the traffic likely to do ?
Where is my escape ?

Find all the posts on this forum that contain something similar to "I was filtering when such and such pulled out and I crashed" and use that in your attitude to filtering

Stay safe.

26-09-06, 10:13 AM

I gotta say I do tend to out accelerate cars off roundabouts, as you find that you can get into gaps they can't ans so in practise I tend to pull off and the cars stay where they are. However I do not do a small roundabout often enough to be confident to do that on a tight roundabout.

I do tend to be more relaxed when it's greasy as being 1 car in front is not worth coming off for.

I would never pull out between cars and stay between them, or stay in there blind spot of a single car that is on the inside whilst going round the roundabout. Simpley because people do dum things on roundabouts, especially in heavy traffic where they might have put themselves in a faster moving (inside) lane and then turn off across your path.

Byt he very fact you wrote this topic, it suggest you don't feel confortable with what you did. In my experience if I think I rode like an ass, I have rode like an ass. The real skill is learning from it. And thats something I don't manage every time.

northwind · 26-09-06, 10:29 AM

If I read this right... Basically you're putting yourself in a position where you've got to be first off the line, and then not being first off the line? I do much the same maneuvre most days on the way home but I'd not consider it if I thought there was any risk of not being able to get in front cleanly. I've stopped befor the front when there's been something rapid looking, or a creeping driver, things like that. Dones't really sound like overconfidence, to me, just maybe not quite the right thing to do under that particular circumstance.

If I'm in any doubt, I'll put the bike in front of the cars, as long as that doesn't put me into the traffic on the roundabout... It's rude, but it stops them creeping out on you or trying to race.

Red ones · 26-09-06, 10:51 AM

Keep your eyes up - all the time.

If you watch the roundabout and the traffic from a distance you might be able to time your approach so that you do not have to make this choice.

Eyes up!

glade · 26-09-06, 11:18 AM

I have this dilemma every day joinging and leaving a dual carriageway. wide roundabouts so plenty of space.

most times i can either

a) nip into a gap too small for a waiting car using the bikes acceleration
or
b) move at the same time as the cars either side but get in front due to the bike's acceleration.

whatever you do ALWAYS make sure you can see the roundabout is clear before pulling on. if you have a van in the right lane blocking the view i will always leave it - even if he's decided to go.

Once while I was waiting for a clear view when the car in the outside lane pulled out onto the roundabout and cut someone up. They were beeping and braking and swerving, then accelerating to get out of the way. i'f i'd have pulled out jsut because he did, and had been in the middle of it all I would have been knocked off, i'm sure!

Like someone else said, weigh up the risk of a manouver against the gain. Better to arrive 2 mins late than not to arrive at all eh?

26-09-06, 08:32 AM	#1
grecian9 Guest Posts: n/a	over confident filtering OK, I've been riding for 2 months now and I think I'm getting over confident with my filtering. The traffic was very heavy this morning so I was blasting up the middle right up to the roundabout. This left me in the middle of two cars waiting to pull out. It's quite a small roundabout and the car on my right was a nippy Peugeot 107. I caused the 107 to brake as I cut in front of it on the roundabout and I got beeped at. So experienced riders - tell me, would you (a) just accelerate away harder, or (b) pull in behind the lead car at a roundabout? I didn't accerelate away harder because it's a tight roundabout and the road was greasy (and I'm a newbie). Up to now I've been able to time it so that I can beat the car onto the roundabout but today it wasn't possible.

26-09-06, 10:29 AM	#8
northwind Moderator Mega Poster Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: In the garage where I belong Posts: 17,083	If I read this right... Basically you're putting yourself in a position where you've got to be first off the line, and then not being first off the line? I do much the same maneuvre most days on the way home but I'd not consider it if I thought there was any risk of not being able to get in front cleanly. I've stopped befor the front when there's been something rapid looking, or a creeping driver, things like that. Dones't really sound like overconfidence, to me, just maybe not quite the right thing to do under that particular circumstance. If I'm in any doubt, I'll put the bike in front of the cars, as long as that doesn't put me into the traffic on the roundabout... It's rude, but it stops them creeping out on you or trying to race. __________________ "We are the angry mob, we read the papers every day We like what we like, we hate what we hate But we're oh so easily swayed"

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26-09-06, 08:39 AM	#3
PsychoCannon Guest Posts: n/a	Nothing wrong with being confident mate, its just learning where and when to use it Personally I feel a bit rude and unsafe pulling across cars onto a round about but usually cars will let you go first if you pull up far enough. If the traffic is tight and its a small round about I usually push up to the front car and pull in behind it If it's a big road/roundabout I'll wait for the front cars to pull out then move out with them keeping between them, sort of like a synchronised manouver thing The latter confuses the hell out of some drivers though so It's upto you if you want to try it At the end of the day though you just have to be aware people may pull out on you so don't hoon it too fast if you don't have a quick way out

26-09-06, 08:44 AM	#4
Baph Guest Posts: n/a	If in doubt, don't do it. One mantra I repeat to myself whilst riding is "Never go where angels fear to tread." If you found yourself second guessing you're riding, IMHO, it was a bad bit of riding that put you there. Only you know the situation, and only you know how to "correct" what you did to make yourself feel more comfortable. Also, in that particular situation, I normally get to the middle of the lane before the roundabout, even if that means I'm a few cars behind the lead. Having said that, this morning, I could of easily been confused for a courier. Any available space was mine, and at times, I was inches away from cars. Yes it was risky, but my machine control & road conditions were up to scratch for the play in around 20mph. Or so I felt at the time. Maybe I was wrong, but at the end of the day, I didn't die, so I consider myself lucky enough to do the risk assesment another time.

26-09-06, 08:45 AM	#5
grecian9 Guest Posts: n/a	thanks pyschocannon...interesting what you say. The roundabout in question is too tight to ride between cars so I may have to pull in behind the front car.

26-09-06, 09:50 AM	#6
tricky Guest Posts: n/a	I've been riding a couple of years now, I always work on: Advantage gained vs risk of bike damage/death/injury THis normally rules out filtering on roundabouts (except massive multi lane ones, and even then muchos observation and caution) Keep the speed down. Have a plan, dont just go piling up the middle of two lines of cars. Be thinking What will I do if the lights change ? What does the road do up ahead ? What is the traffic likely to do ? Where is my escape ? Find all the posts on this forum that contain something similar to "I was filtering when such and such pulled out and I crashed" and use that in your attitude to filtering Stay safe.

26-09-06, 10:13 AM	#7
Dangle_kt Guest Posts: n/a	I gotta say I do tend to out accelerate cars off roundabouts, as you find that you can get into gaps they can't ans so in practise I tend to pull off and the cars stay where they are. However I do not do a small roundabout often enough to be confident to do that on a tight roundabout. I do tend to be more relaxed when it's greasy as being 1 car in front is not worth coming off for. I would never pull out between cars and stay between them, or stay in there blind spot of a single car that is on the inside whilst going round the roundabout. Simpley because people do dum things on roundabouts, especially in heavy traffic where they might have put themselves in a faster moving (inside) lane and then turn off across your path. Byt he very fact you wrote this topic, it suggest you don't feel confortable with what you did. In my experience if I think I rode like an ass, I have rode like an ass. The real skill is learning from it. And thats something I don't manage every time.

26-09-06, 10:51 AM	#9
Red ones Member Mega Poster Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Hertfordshire Posts: 1,422	Keep your eyes up - all the time. If you watch the roundabout and the traffic from a distance you might be able to time your approach so that you do not have to make this choice. Eyes up!

26-09-06, 11:18 AM	#10
glade Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Leeds Posts: 431	I have this dilemma every day joinging and leaving a dual carriageway. wide roundabouts so plenty of space. most times i can either a) nip into a gap too small for a waiting car using the bikes acceleration or b) move at the same time as the cars either side but get in front due to the bike's acceleration. whatever you do ALWAYS make sure you can see the roundabout is clear before pulling on. if you have a van in the right lane blocking the view i will always leave it - even if he's decided to go. Once while I was waiting for a clear view when the car in the outside lane pulled out onto the roundabout and cut someone up. They were beeping and braking and swerving, then accelerating to get out of the way. i'f i'd have pulled out jsut because he did, and had been in the middle of it all I would have been knocked off, i'm sure! Like someone else said, weigh up the risk of a manouver against the gain. Better to arrive 2 mins late than not to arrive at all eh?