the new 800cc gp bikes

i see that hopper's broke the lap record on the new 800, wasnt this ment to be slowing them down?

yes it was.
the prob was that 990cc bikes were not making max power because they would be unrideable if they did. the 800 must be making the same power but at higher revs.
I hope Suzuki keeps this lead next year but I doubt it.

Nice SV1000

[Biker Biggles]

Jerry Mac used to regularly set fastest laps on the two stroke tipple KR bike when the 990 series first started despite giving away 490 cc.This was achieved by much higher corner speed as the smaller bike handled much better.He could'nt win a race on it though as the others would smoke him off the line at the start and catch him along any long straights.They would then obstruct his lines at the corners negating any advantage he had there.
It won't happen,but it would be interesting to see if the 800s could beat the 990s in race conditions.

The new 800cc bikes have the same weight as the 990's I believe but as stated will be revving higher and be able to carry greater corner speed. My suggestion is that before you know it they will be eclipsing best lap times as set by the bigger machines due to this.

The reason for me is simple, every race circuit has far more corners than it does straights. In addition the % of time on most tracks where they are at full gas is minimal. Hence the faster aggregated cornering will I think see those lap times reduced by the quicker turning 880 bikes.

People in the know will tell you that races are won by those with fast corner speed, not by those with the fastest top end on straights.

All of the above is open to question as it just might be complete and utter BS on my part.

Originally Posted by Peter Henry

The new 800cc bikes have the same weight as the 990's I believe but as stated will be revving higher and be able to carry greater corner speed. My suggestion is that before you know it they will be eclipsing best lap times as set by the bigger machines due to this

I've heard this from various people in the tail-end of the season, but I'm not sure I understand it. is there some inherent reason why these bikes will be able to carry more corner speed?

More corner speed due to less rotating mass (engine parts). This makes it easier to get the bike on its side in the first place, and therefore to go a bit faster.

Also, with less power comes increased driveability off the corner, so the 800's can get on it earlier without the rear tyre smokin'. It'll be ore inclined to hook up and fire the bike out of the corner.

Matt

[carelesschucca]

Don't you think the saddest part about the new rules is Honda basically forced the 800cc thing in, most of the other companies wanted to go to 750cc...

Isn't it weird why Honda pushed for 800cc as they've always had a thing for racing v4's and when 990cc divided by 5 times by 4 = 792cc just under the limit...

Isn't it also sad that they have banned 500cc two strokes, do they have something to fear???

Originally Posted by alpinestarhero

More corner speed due to less rotating mass (engine parts). This makes it easier to get the bike on its side in the first place, and therefore to go a bit faster.

fine, turn-in is quicker, but I don't see how that increases corner speed once lean is established

Originally Posted by alpinestarhero

Also, with less power comes increased driveability off the corner, so the 800's can get on it earlier without the rear tyre smokin'. It'll be ore inclined to hook up and fire the bike out of the corner.

similarly, more driveability out of the corner, but that doesn't explain how it increases the speed through the corner

Ok
Maybe this might help those wondering the differtences between the previous 990 machines and the new generation 800cc bikes. This information has been obtained from reports following the Sepang tests and from riders who rode there.

Firstly I made a great error in my previous post...the 800cc bikes ARE LIGHTER. This makes them very noticeably much more flickable in the curves.

Ok one sample from the Kawasaki team data at Sepang showed this:

The 800cc bike was down on top speed by some 17kmh. However the bike was up as much as 12kmh through certain curves.

One glaring difference highlighted was that in one particular corner the bike was braking 60 metres later at the end of a long straight....that's like half of a football pitch difference!

The new bikes will rev higher with most teams working around17/18'000rpm but all striving to get nearer to 20'000rpm.

The power delivery will be less controlled by electronics and their will be less reliance on traction control. Why?

The power delivery will be "flatter" and less brutal than that offered by the 990 bikes. Riders have stated that they will be able to go from "0" gas to full on gas without having to worry about highsides which was a factor of the 990's unless you fed the gas in gradually.

The nature of the power delivery will see race tyres last much longer and possibly see people able to put on late surges or for a leader of a race to just keep on going away?

The secret in being succesful on the new machines then is going to be all down to smoothness and corner speed. Being able to keep the engine spinning at optimum levels will be crucial as getting wrong will see a rider lose pace and maybe be passed by others. A slight error on the 990 bikes could be made up for quickly due to the extraordinary power available to the rider and so he could make up lost time due to an error.


Which riders will be more suited to the new bikes?

As mentioned elsewhere anyone with recognised corner speed already. Most particularly those with a good 250cc record or those that have most recently stepped up from that class.

A dark horse next year might well be Hoppers. The reason being he has had to hang it all out last season in the turns to make up for the massive power disadvantage that his Suzuki had. So you could say he has already had a full season to learn the new riding style required for the 800cc bike.

Who will be most disadvantaged?

I think any of the bigger riders will struggle through the season,(Barros has shown well in early tests but do not expect that to continue in the season) Colin Edwards maybe and definitely Hoffman as well as Carlos Checa.

Who will be most disadvantaged?

Nicky Hayden is going to have to totally relearn how to go in to bends as the method needed now is so alien to his "backing it in style" you cant try for that on the 800's as you will be risking dropping out of the "power band".

Valentino will also have some problems at first as he is a bigger rider and very much a late and hard braker. But of course he was a superb 250 rider and so it is just a matter of re igniting what he used before.


Genuine contenders next year based on comparative machine and tyre performances should be:

Valentino

Pedrosa

Melandri

Capirossi,(but tyres WILL fail him again)

Hope some of that helps folks.

[fizzwheel]

Originally Posted by Peter Henry

Who will be most disadvantaged?.... Colin Edwards maybe

Umh.. well most of you know I'm a big Edwards fan. I think this a little harsh. IIRC Edwards has 250cc two stroke experience, He rode 250cc in the earlier part of his career before he switched to 4-stroke AMA superbikes.

Yes it was a few years ago, but I think its a bit harsh to say he's at a disadvantage. He's changed his riding style alot over the last 2 years and he's well respected by Michellin as a tyre developer so he'll have a lot of input from that side of things to.

IMHO of course.