Red Ken is nuts

[northwind]

I like Boris Johnson. Read his book Jottings from the Stump, it's ace. Not nearly such a fool as he'd like you to think.

The thing about putting restrictions on anything but very new vehicles is that it increases the replacement cycle, which is bad. A vehicle doesn't suddenly become more polluting after 4 years... But building and importing a new one is massively polluting. This just moves the problem to the production side.

At the moment, it's generally better to drive around in an old car with a dirty engine than to scrap it and buy a new one with a clean engine. I'd be surprised if the same doesn't follow for other vehicles, though commercials do more miles so they could be an exception, dunno.

Low emission zones are nothing new - there's quite a few of them in major European cities. It's not that massive a change for most - it means that trucks and buses have to come up to Euro 3 emissions standard to enter the low emission zone. Euro 3 was introduced in 2001 so any truck or bus with a '51' plate or younger (7 years old when the reg's come in) will comply. Those that don't may be able to be retro-fitted with aftertreatment to clean up emissions.

There's increasing statistical evidence of a link between diesel particulate emissions and lung cancer. If you ban smokers from subjecting you to passive inhalation of smoke, why shouldn't you do the same to drivers? Busy streets in rush hour in london are not a nice place to be, especially when stood near the back of a smoky old truck.

Hi guys, I'm new here and its a great feeling to see normal people who care about stuff debating reality. The giant mosque is ridiculous and you can sign a petition on this site if you wish. http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/ScrapMegaMosque/
Tax payers money can be better spent even though muslims are paying plenty of tax I'm sure that even they would prefer that the money be spent more wisely, and at a time when we are virtually at war with the middle east this sort of thing just drives a wedge between the different communities.
Building a huge church would be just as ridiculous!

Smokey vehicles hits a sore nerve with me because diesel fumes give me asthma, nothing else does so I guess I have an allergic reaction. Being a biker makes sitting behind these vehics impossible but what Mad Ken is proposing is just using "dynamite to crack an egg". Overkill of the most disrespectful kind, I'm the mayor of London and I'll do as I please.....although you always have to ask yourself, who is pulling Kens strings and who benefits most from the changes?? Believe me folks, to those in power, your health is not a priority!

getting buses out of cities- ace! But what a bonkers plan! Northwind - you mentioned the production side of emissions and environmental pollution - that's what riles me the most when bikers get slated for inefficient engines. That tiny metal SV in my garage can't compare to a lexus hybrid 4x4 in manufacturing emissions. Add to that that bikes are kept until they are run in to the ground (in both ways ) and even then are broken down for parts and recycled. We should be given fuel as an incentive!

I love the green image promoted by MPs. Did anyone see David Cameron cycling in to London? If you watched carefully there was a huge black 4x4 behind full of bodyguards!! Such media nonsense! I'd like to see Kens real environmental footprint

And welcome RJ - pop a hello in idle banter to tell us a little about yourself we're a friendly bunch really

Hi Dizzy happy to be here !
New thread inserted on a subject that maybe has been reported somewhere on here before but hey its a personal gripe which needs to be aired. We are talking battered elbow joints here and not those of the chipshop variety either!

[northwind]

Originally Posted by gettin2dizzy

Add to that that bikes are kept until they are run in to the ground (in both ways )

Weeeelll... I read a while back that the average lifespan of a bike now is 4 years doing an average of under 6000 miles a year. Bikes to tend to have a better afterlife, with parts being extensively reused though. My real bugbear is catalytic convertors on bikes. Cats only make sense over a decent lifespan though, to outweigh the production side issues and raw material consumption, and I gather (though don't know) that most bikes will never achieve that lifespan. That's assuming the owner doesn't immediately remove it and stick it on a shelf.

Originally Posted by northwind

Weeeelll... I read a while back that the average lifespan of a bike now is 4 years doing an average of under 6000 miles a year. Bikes to tend to have a better afterlife, with parts being extensively reused though. My real bugbear is catalytic convertors on bikes. Cats only make sense over a decent lifespan though, to outweigh the production side issues and raw material consumption, and I gather (though don't know) that most bikes will never achieve that lifespan. That's assuming the owner doesn't immediately remove it and stick it on a shelf.

Is that for first owners, or in total? Seems quite low to me, but of course perception on things like this can often be well off the mark.

As for cats, completely agree. But of course you're talking of a holistic view of things, and we cant let sense get in the way of political dogma now, can we?

[northwind]

Originally Posted by Flamin_Squirrel

Is that for first owners, or in total? Seems quite low to me, but of course perception on things like this can often be well off the mark.

As for cats, completely agree. But of course you're talking of a holistic view of things, and we cant let sense get in the way of political dogma now, can we?

Heh, I bet the two of us can if we try

Apparently it was total lifespan from buying to bits. Though I can't figure out any way to get a reliable sample for that other than questioning a huge group of riders, which I don't think they did. It gets all skewed, if Nick Sanders replied to it it all goes out the window But then, I suppose an awful lot of bikes do very low miles, the guy down the road with the GSX1300 does about 2000 miles in a good year. Or the GSXR750 that's sat in my local dealers, Cat B after 500 miles... And new bikes getting nicked as well, that'll skew it a lot since they're the number one target.

I suppose another view is that most bikes aren't essential, but toys additional to a car.
But from the department of made up facts and figures (DOMUFAF) i reckon 25% bikes stolen - 25 % bikes eventually written off, 25% have a hard life, 25% sit in garages pristine! Certainly bikes seem to be recycled for parts in a way cars could never be. Maybe the influx of FI systems for emissions regs are making it too hard for people to recycle parts?

i'm all for cleaning up the air in London, but it has to be done in a sensible way, and i don't believe the LEZ is strictly necessary. From what i understand, the turnover of company vehicles means that the vast majority of vans, etc will be compliant in a few years anyhow.

also in practice you can't enforce this amongst foreign vehicles, and IMO it's just another example of how govt as a whole is messing up our freight industry. free markets are all well and good, but it should be a level playing field and not skewed in favour of european companies...


but that said i can't bring myself to hate ken cos he pays my wages and keeps me in motorcycles...