Hydraulic clutch - advantages?

[the_lone_wolf]

Originally Posted by yorkie_chris

Why should the 560's slipper clutch affect launch? Aren't they only supposed to slip on the overrun?

the effect is almost like a twist and go when you start off, the clutch doesn't bite initially and then catches almost as if by itself, once engaged it's like having a normal clutch, you can roll off and on and it's the same, but if you disengage the clutch again it needs to re-engage or slip, although you don't feel the effect while your moving. don't know why it does it, but it's widely recognised by the SM racing guys and doesn't happen on bikes without slipper clutches - if you're ever on the island you're welcome to try it and see

greek: so everything about the falco is heavy?

Originally Posted by the_lone_wolf

the effect is almost like a twist and go when you start off, the clutch doesn't bite initially and then catches almost as if by itself, once engaged it's like having a normal clutch, you can roll off and on and it's the same, but if you disengage the clutch again it needs to re-engage or slip, although you don't feel the effect while your moving. don't know why it does it, but it's widely recognised by the SM racing guys and doesn't happen on bikes without slipper clutches - if you're ever on the island you're welcome to try it and see

greek: so everything about the falco is heavy?

Is it a 560/SM thing - my 750 (slipper clutch) doesn't feel different to the CBR (no slipper clutch), at least not in the drive characteristics (obviously it pulls away with a bit more go ). Also my 600 (slipper clutch) didn't feel different, and I had just changed from the SV. Maybe Suzuki slipper clutches don't have this "feature"?

[the_lone_wolf]

Originally Posted by muffles

Maybe Suzuki slipper clutches don't have this "feature"?

perhaps in order to provide the effect required for supermoto racing the design has to be slightly different to the one used on a road bike? somehow i doubt people wouldn't switch from one design to another if it was able to provide the exact same effect without the slightly odd pulling away feel. the whole point of a slipper clutch on a road bike is to prevent the rear wheel sliding or locking when you downshift, on a supermoto it's designed to take a 5th to 1st run of changes with the clutch in then slide the rear wheel perfectly when the rider dumps the clutch lever, although the principle of operation is the same the purposes are diametrically opposite...

Originally Posted by the_lone_wolf

perhaps in order to provide the effect required for supermoto racing the design has to be slightly different to the one used on a road bike? somehow i doubt people wouldn't switch from one design to another if it was able to provide the exact same effect without the slightly odd pulling away feel. the whole point of a slipper clutch on a road bike is to prevent the rear wheel sliding or locking when you downshift, on a supermoto it's designed to take a 5th to 1st run of changes with the clutch in then slide the rear wheel perfectly when the rider dumps the clutch lever, although the principle of operation is the same the purposes are diametrically opposite...

It would certainly make more sense if it was on purpose...

[the_lone_wolf]

Originally Posted by muffles

It would certainly make more sense if it was on purpose...

yep, tbh the effect is only really noticable if you're crawling along and slipping the clutch, holding the lever steady you can feel the clutch bite by itself, it's a gradual thing, not like dumping the clutch or anything so it's just something to be aware of...

if it were crap i'm pretty sure the 2001 and 2003 British Supermoto champion wouldn't have fitted it to this bike

Originally Posted by the_lone_wolf

yep, tbh the effect is only really noticable if you're crawling along and slipping the clutch, holding the lever steady you can feel the clutch bite by itself, it's a gradual thing, not like dumping the clutch or anything so it's just something to be aware of...

if it were crap i'm pretty sure the 2001 and 2003 British Supermoto champion wouldn't have fitted it to this bike

My STM doesn't have this effect either and that isn't carp! I thought all slippers were based on a ball-bearing and ramp design and therefore should all work in a similar fashion. Maybe it's just a clutch adjustment thing?

[the_lone_wolf]

Originally Posted by lukemillar

My STM doesn't have this effect either and that isn't carp! I thought all slippers were based on a ball-bearing and ramp design and therefore should all work in a similar fashion. Maybe it's just a clutch adjustment thing?

the design is the same, but the back pressure adjustment is probably completely different for 100kg (ish) racing supermoto compared to a 200kg (ish) road / track bike

Originally Posted by the_lone_wolf

the effect is almost like a twist and go when you start off, the clutch doesn't bite initially and then catches almost as if by itself, once engaged it's like having a normal clutch

Mine some times does something slightly similar, itll be nicly slipping setting off then itll enguage even if you hold the lever at the same point... Not sure what that is. Nothing really bad mind once you are used to it, didnt think it was a slipper thing though.

Maybe you dont notice Muffles because your engine is smoother with its many small pistons?

Originally Posted by the_lone_wolf

but if you disengage the clutch again it needs to re-engage or slip, although you don't feel the effect while your moving.

When you down shift does your clutch feel lighter when the throttle is shut? Because of the weigh mine works when you down shift with closed throttle the clutch becomes feather lite... well compaired to normal.

Originally Posted by the_lone_wolf

greek: so everything about the falco is heavy?

Well when you have a pair of dust bin size pistons pounding away you need a strong clutch to transfer the push... guess little engines are good to use little clutches

How much do you weigh Mr Wolf?

Originally Posted by the_lone_wolf

perhaps in order to provide the effect required for supermoto racing the design has to be slightly different to the one used on a road bike? somehow i doubt people wouldn't switch from one design to another if it was able to provide the exact same effect without the slightly odd pulling away feel. the whole point of a slipper clutch on a road bike is to prevent the rear wheel sliding or locking when you downshift, on a supermoto it's designed to take a 5th to 1st run of changes with the clutch in then slide the rear wheel perfectly when the rider dumps the clutch lever, although the principle of operation is the same the purposes are diametrically opposite...

Hmmph damn was going to show you this review of the falco, which used to be there... But basically one of the riders was playing about with the falco and bacing it into the corners supermoto style, said the slipper clutch was great and he had no issue doing it.

[the_lone_wolf]

Originally Posted by ThEGr33k

When you down shift does your clutch feel lighter when the throttle is shut? Because of the weigh mine works when you down shift with closed throttle the clutch becomes feather lite... well compaired to normal.

yep, feels the same

Well when you have a pair of dust bin size pistons pounding away you need a strong clutch to transfer the push... guess little engines are good to use little clutches

when your bike doesn't weigh more than a fully fueled elephant you don't need dustbin sized pistons, heavy drivetrain components etc etc, just one of the many advantages to a light bike

How much do you weigh Mr Wolf?

now you're just getting personal

no idea tbh, about 11st but i haven't stood on a pair of scales in ages, i'm far too manly - if you're trying to compare both our bike+rider weights you're still much heavier

Hmmph damn was going to show you this review of the falco, which used to be there... But basically one of the riders was playing about with the falco and bacing it into the corners supermoto style, said the slipper clutch was great and he had no issue doing it.

i never said a road bike couldn't do it, i just said the adjustments could be different for different intended uses, a good enough rider can back any bike into a corner with a regular clutch

...

Ha ha wasnt ment to be personal, just wondering.

BTW you do have one Dustbin sized piston hehe