Quick bitta work advice?

[gruntygiggles]

Dave, you have to have really good read through your contract to make sure there are no clauses in there that allow them the ability to deduct wages without prior consent......I doubt there will be anything in there.

If they do deduct and you've not given permission, it is in effect, theft.

Now....the two people that were sacked may well have their own case against the company, but if you're good friends with them, I'd do no more than advise them to get legal advice. Their problem is theirs, not yours....as much as it stinks. Just don't get involved.

As a final point I would say that if they want to deduct wages or discipline you....you have a very good case against them. If property of the company was stolen...they should have called the police in. No employer has the right to be judge and jury and by punishing you because they say you have stolen from them, you could quite probably take them to court for defamation of character or whatever it's called. It's a slanderous remark against your good name and it's not something they can do without evidence. Yes......they can catch you in the act of stealing/being physically abusive/being under the influence of drugs etc.......but it's a very silly thing to do if they have no proof and you have a good work record and character.

Take it easy, play ball with them as much as you can so you don't jeopardise your job and trawl through all the legal info you can find, talk to citizens advice and know your stuff incase you end up needing it.

Good luck mate x

[Dave20046]

Originally Posted by gruntygiggles

Dave, you have to have really good read through your contract to make sure there are no clauses in there that allow them the ability to deduct wages without prior consent......I doubt there will be anything in there.

If they do deduct and you've not given permission, it is in effect, theft.

Now....the two people that were sacked may well have their own case against the company, but if you're good friends with them, I'd do no more than advise them to get legal advice. Their problem is theirs, not yours....as much as it stinks. Just don't get involved.

As a final point I would say that if they want to deduct wages or discipline you....you have a very good case against them. If property of the company was stolen...they should have called the police in. No employer has the right to be judge and jury and by punishing you because they say you have stolen from them, you could quite probably take them to court for defamation of character or whatever it's called. It's a slanderous remark against your good name and it's not something they can do without evidence. Yes......they can catch you in the act of stealing/being physically abusive/being under the influence of drugs etc.......but it's a very silly thing to do if they have no proof and you have a good work record and character.

Take it easy, play ball with them as much as you can so you don't jeopardise your job and trawl through all the legal info you can find, talk to citizens advice and know your stuff incase you end up needing it.

Good luck mate x

Cheers grunty, the redundancies were months ago I think one contested with a union behind him but never heard any more about it. Other one was crap anyway so fair play to him. But no I never got involved.

Unfortunately they never gave me a copy of the contract, there was only one copy which I had to sign and give to them - my stupidity for not asking for a copy at the time. might seem a bit sus if I asked now but to be honest I doubt there'd be anything in there as they're a bit poor on contracts - I think a few guys are working without a contract at all.
Will just have to see what's said, now I know it's unlikely that they can deduct anything and since I've done nothing wrong I'll stick to my guns.
I'll see how it pans out

[gruntygiggles]

Originally Posted by Dave20046

Cheers grunty, the redundancies were months ago I think one contested with a union behind him but never heard any more about it. Other one was crap anyway so fair play to him.
Unfortunately they never gave me a copy of the contract, there was only one copy which I had to sign and give to them - my stupidity for not asking for a copy at the time. might seem a bit sus if I asked now but to be honest I doubt there'd be anything in there as they're a bit poor on contracts - I think a few guys are working without a contract.
Will just have to see what's said, now I know it's unlikely that they can deduct anything and since I've done nothing wrong I'll stick to my guns.

Don't worry about it looking sus........you have a legal right to a copy of your employment contract. You also have to sign in agreement of any amendments so I would, if I were you just ask them for it. Tell them you have been sorting your files out and realised you don't have a copy there. Tell them that you'd like to have a copy please and if they say no or come up with any excuses....be really nice, but say that you need it and ask if it would help if you put a request in writing. Be nice so they don't feel threatened and ask in a non-confrontational way, but I'd definately get it. Without a copy of your contract......you have nothing to support you should you ever need to take action against them and also, they could make amendements to suit them if that should happen too.

Your contract is really important!

I would possibly even put a request in writing to see your employment file. Check with Ed, but I think there is a timeframe you can give them too. Have a good read through it...........have a good read through your contract and take copies of it all if you can (not sure if you can, so maybe ask Ed).
Just doing something like this is a very friendly way can quietly let your boss know that you are armed with a bit more savvy and knowledge than others and that you're clearly aware of your rights.....usually makes people decide against doing things they really shouldn't. I remember doing it when I was being pushed out of a job years and years ago. I sat in teh metting room with my file for hours, making notes, asking questions about it etc........gave it back, said thanks and smiled. From that day I never had a promblem again. My boss didn't like me because the other staff listened to me more than him, but he realised he'd be up sh!t creek if he tried anything unlwful to get rid of me!

I take it this is on a customer site, and somebody has probably cleaned up behind you and thrown away a box with a new SFP in it thinking it was empty because they weigh nothing? I can't count the number of hours I've wasted on customer site, looking for parts that they have "put away somewhere safe"

From the sounds of it, the kit was delivered to site? If this case your employer should have a delivery note signed by the customer to say it was received and from that point onwards the kit belongs to and is the responsibility of the customer.

Is the customer trying to say that you have taken it back off site, or lost it, and that they have not touched it? If so just deny this, tell your boss that you left it in the cabinet for your colleague, and it's up to your boss to have this argument with the customer (and check that it's not currently on ebay under your colleague or customers login, somebody may have seen an opportunity to pinch it knowing it's untraceable and you will get blamed, but don't suggest this to your boss!).

If he wants to order a new SFP to keep the customer happy FOC that's up to him and he has to cover that cost, but he can't take it out of your wages unless your contract says he can, even then he has to prove you have been negligent in the part getting lost. If he tells you he's deducting it from your wages make sure you ask him for a letter explaining why and stating in the letter what evidence he has to make him believe that the part has been lost as a result of your negligence.

He is well within his rights to charge the customer for the new SFP if he has delivered it to the customer once already and they have signed for it. It's their responsibility to ensure it is secure, so long as you are not negligent with it once they entrust it to you.

If this is in a locked comms room or cabinet, and you locked it behind you when you left, then you can argue that you have not been negligent, you had no reason to believe the part would not be secure.

In future be very careful with your parts (only because your employer sounds like a pr*ck) and always take responibility for them if they belong to your employer, so take them with you and arrange to meet your colleague somewhere to hand them over, or return them to your office and book them back into stock. If they already belong to the customer, leave them on site but actually put them in the customers hand and ask them to keep them somewhere secure. Your employer may argue that you should have done this, but just keep telling him you believed the comms room or cabinet was secure.

Don't get bogged down in why you didn't fit the part, you may need to tell your boss this to explain why you left the part in the cabinet, but don't blame the guy that didn't order the patch leads. The issue is the lost part and not having patch leads is actually completely irrelevant.

[Dave20046]

Cheers for all your cracking advice guys, Ralph you speak sense, I did consider that it was their responsibility but I believe one of our guys signed for it as it was addressed to the company not the customer.
Anyway bit of a ****ty ending (I think) to this episode - nothing. Boss never said a word to me, I was in the office all afternoon, he bought me a pint after work ; had all the opportunity in the world to say something yet he hasn't. Have a sneaking suspicion that either it was my manager that was making the threats and just saying they were from the boss or something'll be said near payday.

PS. found out today in the pub someone got sacked this week. we're only a small company, there's a very high staff turnover and when people come and go there are no introductions or good byes Bothers me a little.

Originally Posted by jambo

Have you checked if it's the reg/rec? Everything else in this section supposedly is...

Hope you get it sorted mate

Jambo

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[hindle8907]

where i work i manage some of the enginers mobile devices ... PDA's / blackberry's ECT and i make a form for them to sign for loss/Damage Ect .....
there has been the odd occasion where some one has damaged a device and we have said we are going to charge them and they have asked for a copy of the form they singed when they got the device. if i cannot find the paper with the signture on they have got away without paying as i belive a company cannot deduct monies with your permision .

Originally Posted by Dave20046

Anyway bit of a ****ty ending (I think) to this episode - nothing. Boss never said a word to me, I was in the office all afternoon, he bought me a pint after work ; had all the opportunity in the world to say something yet he hasn't. Have a sneaking suspicion that either it was my manager that was making the threats and just saying they were from the boss or something'll be said near payday.

PS. found out today in the pub someone got sacked this week. we're only a small company, there's a very high staff turnover and when people come and go there are no introductions or good byes Bothers me a little.

Probably much like any other small company, you are dealing with a true personality and probably somebody who views it as coming directly out of his pocket, big fish in a small pond so to speak. In a bigger company it's a professional person who needs to do his job, but it's not his money and he's not going to take it personally, and he may have to answer questions to his boss and/or HR if he upsets you without good reason, so if he gets angry he has to hide it more.

It may be that the boss was having a fit yesterday, but now he has calmed down, just like an argument with his wife. Unprofessional, but hey, small companies can be like that. He'd probably be a bigger company and more successful if he treated his staff with respect and learned how to kerb his high staff turnover!

I don't think you'll hear anything more about it and don't think they'll deduct from salary, if he's calmed down he'll never bother writing the email instructing payroll to do so. If they do it without speaking to you about it, kick up a stink.

Sounds like you just need to keep your eyes open on IT recruitment websites TBH.