Vegetarians .. Vegans and the like …

I have been plagued with severe migraines and arthritis all my life but the thought that if my unborn foetus were seen to have these defects I would be terminated chills me to the bone!

Originally Posted by Blue_SV650S

Accepted, but I think the bigger divide is that when we start talking about humans, all values change ... why is that?!

i think religion has a part to play in it.

Blue....blame religion mate! It sets us apart and above all other living things!

Thats one reason I have absolutely nothing to do with it!

Oi slow down

Originally Posted by RhythmJunkie

Blue...If the same logic were applied to the jews who were gassed the argument could be used that they had had a good life as musicians and carpenters and had children and lots of sex and so the 3rd Reich was fully justifiable in killing them!

Somehow I just don't think that would be acceptable do you?

They were killed through hatred, there was no 'purpose' to it ...

Anyway, aside from that major difference, sure they were persecuted at the end, but until Adolf came along they did indeed presumably have a ‘good’ (or at least normal) life … something nasty stopped their life prematurely … speak to any cancer patient/widow and ask them if they think that the their life was not worth living as it came to a premature/tragic end - even taking into account all they suffered near the end!!

It isn’t that black and white people

In response to Blue's point about aborting foetuses...I don't think you can fairly draw a parallel as people aren't mass farmed purely to feed another species. Also, there is a difference between being born with disabilities or even in a vegetative state to being born and raised in the animal equivalent of a thai prison...in the case of poultry...overcrowded, hot, smelly, the only reason the animals can sustain life is because they are fed a cocktail of drugs/chemicals, light levels are controlled to ensure the animals are awake and feeding as much of the time as is possible...they can grow so quickly that their bones are unable to take the weight of their massive bodies...dead birds often remain amongst the live ones, the birds start to cannibalise one another....etc. Lets not forget that they have all their senses in tact...every sentient creature has a will to survive and feels fear, stress etc. when that survival is threatened.

I for one would not like to be severely disabled or have any of the problems that lead people to have abortions but many people who have these issues have managed to overcome them to an extent and have some quality of life. Perhaps when parents decide to terminate these pregnancies they are not just thinking about the quality of the child's life but also how their own will be affected which is fair enough.

It's about quality of life and I believe we have a responsibility/duty of care towards the animals we choose to farm for food and under intensive farming conditions that duty of care is not being met and that in those instances it's better not to exist.

Originally Posted by sarah

i think religion has a part to play in it.

I think you are right ... are there any deeply religious veggies?

Oh and it is humanity as a whole, not just religion that make out ‘we’ are above all others …

they did indeed presumably have a ‘good’ (or at least normal) life … something nasty stopped their life prematurely

Like a slaughterman? That would be Goebbels?

Oh and it is humanity as a whole, not just religion that make out ‘we’ are above all others

Describe! I have only come across christianity that has this particular peculiarity!
For example Hindus have an unhealthy respect for cows! Lots of them are veggies too....connection? Human....respect....animal?

Originally Posted by LouLou

In response to Blue's point about aborting foetuses...I don't think you can fairly draw a parallel as people aren't mass farmed purely to feed another species. ..

What about kids that would be so severely disabled/ill they have to live their short lives on dialysis (or whatever) or spend most of it in and out of hospitals? They are only able to be kept alive with assistance?!? At least the animals are being borne with a purpose ...

I’d say that we have many levels here, the severely disabled/ill that might be coupled to mass farmed animals who have a very low standard of life, and then lightly disabled that could be coupled with a ‘free range’ chicken or a cow that lives in a field …

The free-range and lightly disabled are an easy call … but what about the severely disabled and mass farmed?!?!

are there any deeply religious veggies

I can't think of a religious vegetarian. All the veggies I know think religion is just fairy stories! Although some have other spiritual yearnings, which could be seen as a contradiction but at least they leave christianity alone which for the past 2000 years has been the dominant destructive religion!
Islam looks like being the next one but not if the all forgiving christians have anything to do with it huh?!

The free-range and lightly disabled are an easy call

Not really....have you seen the film Logans Run? Poulation control view of the future. This had already been talked about by the powers that be back in the 1950's which is where the idea for the film probably came from!

Doctors are already admitting to spending less resources on the very old and infirm to make sure that the younger tax earners are kept healthy. Makes good business sense I s'pose!