Harley Davidson - an Americans view.... - Page 2 - SV650.org

27-06-06, 01:10 PM

"Written by Christopher T. Shields, October 18, 1993."

I don't think Buell had very much of an impact at this point, they're still using H-D engines but small changes are the way forward with the traditional customer base that they have. An ageing customer base I might add.

27-06-06, 01:12 PM

It's hard enough to turn someone around from their pre-conceptions but insult your target audience and you'll never do it.

Can't help but feel like it's a wind up...

27-06-06, 01:14 PM

if you read it right to the bottom, youll notice that rant is 13 yr old, so his points about no harley performance model, or the british bike industry might be a little different if he wrote it now.

but if anything the harley situation is even worse now, for whatever reason, even more middle aged accountants buy them now than then.

he does go on but he makes some good points about how Harley is actually bad for american business and development.

not that im bothered mind they could go bust tomorrow for all i care,

maybe i could afford one then........hhhhmmmmm Harley Davidson..............

northwind · 27-06-06, 01:40 PM

I think he completely misses the point of Buell though... Erik Buell's not trying to make "The American Sports Bike", he's making the bike he wants to make, end of. I like his style, he's sort of like the American Lester Harris.

Skip · 27-06-06, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by northwind

he's making the bike he wants to make

I think his hands are tied - I seriously cant believe that he wouldnt consider using a different engine now and again....

But then I could be wrong!

northwind · 27-06-06, 01:56 PM

His hands are tied, but he tied them

He's got access to the Porsche/Rod engine if he wanted it, he's often said he's just not interested.

27-06-06, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by northwind

His hands are tied, but he tied them

He's got access to the Porsche/Rod engine if he wanted it, he's often said he's just not interested.

I thought that he wanted to use the v-rod engine, but it's too large to fit in a Buell frame.

Sid Squid · 27-06-06, 02:58 PM

It may well be a rant, but there's more than a grain of truth in a lot of it.

Harleys = Crap? Simply not true. Not what I want from a bike for certain, but if anyone here can remember the AMF Harleys of the 70's they'll know what crap is, and the modern ones just aren't.

northwind · 27-06-06, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wyrdness

Quote:

Originally Posted by northwind

His hands are tied, but he tied them

He's got access to the Porsche/Rod engine if he wanted it, he's often said he's just not interested.

I thought that he wanted to use the v-rod engine, but it's too large to fit in a Buell frame.

Not quite... He's said he can't build his sort of bike around it, so it's just the same as IL4s etc

27-06-06, 11:51 PM

I think he is wrong. HD's are perfect for the american market. The Majority of american roads are long straight and riddled with traffic cops with great distances between major urban areas. So like their cars, americans dont need sport set up suspension, blistering fast pace and balanced like its on rails full of electronic gizmo wizardry. What they want is a big heavy lump of metal that will potter from A to B in a straight line. When it does go wrong its fairly easy to get it temporarily fixed at Bubba's Garage to get you home. Europeans dont have the same conditions and hence our cars and bikes reflect that. As the japanese have similar roads and sell to our market they copy the european ethos. Would you honestly consider a 5litre 4 seater car twice the size of a focus, that does about 15miles to the gallon and wallows around like a fat kid on a monkey bike and has the turning circle of a super tanker.

Neither would I but I do see the appeal of such a car in a land where there are no corners the citys are 400 miles apart and the price of petrol is the lowest in the world. HD reflect the market, and market their product very well. At the end of the day the Americans appear to still have the fear of buying anything foreign and while HD are there no matter how crap their bikes are, they will sell by the bucket load.

On the Americans buying foreign bit you only have to watch any of their films to see this reinforced. Whenever a character has a crappy car that wont start is slow and falls to bits, you can bet it will be a funny little european car, never american. Theres nothing wrong with suporting your market but you shouldnt complain if the stuff you make is crap.

27-06-06, 01:40 PM	#14
northwind Moderator Mega Poster Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: In the garage where I belong Posts: 17,083	I think he completely misses the point of Buell though... Erik Buell's not trying to make "The American Sports Bike", he's making the bike he wants to make, end of. I like his style, he's sort of like the American Lester Harris. __________________ "We are the angry mob, we read the papers every day We like what we like, we hate what we hate But we're oh so easily swayed"

27-06-06, 01:56 PM	#16
northwind Moderator Mega Poster Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: In the garage where I belong Posts: 17,083	His hands are tied, but he tied them He's got access to the Porsche/Rod engine if he wanted it, he's often said he's just not interested. __________________ "We are the angry mob, we read the papers every day We like what we like, we hate what we hate But we're oh so easily swayed"

27-06-06, 02:58 PM	#18
Sid Squid No, I don't lend tools. Mega Poster Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Skunk Works, Nth London Posts: 8,680	It may well be a rant, but there's more than a grain of truth in a lot of it. Harleys = Crap? Simply not true. Not what I want from a bike for certain, but if anyone here can remember the AMF Harleys of the 70's they'll know what crap is, and the modern ones just aren't. __________________ If an SV650 has a flat tyre in the forest and no-one is there to blow it up, how long will it be 'til someone posts that the reg/rec is duff and the world will end unless a CBR unit is fitted? A little bit of knowledge = a dangerous thing. "a deathless anthem of nuclear-strength romantic angst"

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27-06-06, 01:10 PM	#11
Razor Guest Posts: n/a	"Written by Christopher T. Shields, October 18, 1993." I don't think Buell had very much of an impact at this point, they're still using H-D engines but small changes are the way forward with the traditional customer base that they have. An ageing customer base I might add.

27-06-06, 01:12 PM	#12
Chicken Guest Posts: n/a	It's hard enough to turn someone around from their pre-conceptions but insult your target audience and you'll never do it. Can't help but feel like it's a wind up...

27-06-06, 01:14 PM	#13
Captain Nemo Guest Posts: n/a	if you read it right to the bottom, youll notice that rant is 13 yr old, so his points about no harley performance model, or the british bike industry might be a little different if he wrote it now. but if anything the harley situation is even worse now, for whatever reason, even more middle aged accountants buy them now than then. he does go on but he makes some good points about how Harley is actually bad for american business and development. not that im bothered mind they could go bust tomorrow for all i care, maybe i could afford one then........hhhhmmmmm Harley Davidson..............

27-06-06, 11:51 PM	#20
Rog Guest Posts: n/a	I think he is wrong. HD's are perfect for the american market. The Majority of american roads are long straight and riddled with traffic cops with great distances between major urban areas. So like their cars, americans dont need sport set up suspension, blistering fast pace and balanced like its on rails full of electronic gizmo wizardry. What they want is a big heavy lump of metal that will potter from A to B in a straight line. When it does go wrong its fairly easy to get it temporarily fixed at Bubba's Garage to get you home. Europeans dont have the same conditions and hence our cars and bikes reflect that. As the japanese have similar roads and sell to our market they copy the european ethos. Would you honestly consider a 5litre 4 seater car twice the size of a focus, that does about 15miles to the gallon and wallows around like a fat kid on a monkey bike and has the turning circle of a super tanker. Neither would I but I do see the appeal of such a car in a land where there are no corners the citys are 400 miles apart and the price of petrol is the lowest in the world. HD reflect the market, and market their product very well. At the end of the day the Americans appear to still have the fear of buying anything foreign and while HD are there no matter how crap their bikes are, they will sell by the bucket load. On the Americans buying foreign bit you only have to watch any of their films to see this reinforced. Whenever a character has a crappy car that wont start is slow and falls to bits, you can bet it will be a funny little european car, never american. Theres nothing wrong with suporting your market but you shouldnt complain if the stuff you make is crap.