Taught conscious countersteering?

[yorkie_chris]

Any instructor who is more concerned with what the DSA say than whether their newly passed student puts their bike through a wall the first time they run in a little hot should be kicked in the knackers!

[TheRamJam]

I wasn't taught countering steering when doing my DAS course. I guess i sort of unconsciously do it whilst riding.

I plan to do some track riding in the summer so I have bought myself a copy of Keith Code's Twist Of The Wrist II DVD and book. Its very comprehensive reading, but hopefully it will give me the advice i need to better undrstand what the bike is doing and what I should be doing on the bike.

Maybe it will make me a better rider. Who knows, but we will see.

I also have digital copies of both book and DVD

Originally Posted by yorkie_chris

Any instructor who is more concerned with what the DSA say than whether their newly passed student puts their bike through a wall the first time they run in a little hot should be kicked in the knackers!

True, but then they only have 3 days to take you from riding a push bike to a 500cc+ engine. If you ask me, no rider with this amount experience is safe or in control on public roads. The real training starts after you passed the absolute minimum requirements DSA test and that's up to the individual how. Advanced training is a natural step towards safety and combined with machine control days and track time, will help develop the skills towards a better rider.


Best,
Andy

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by maxinc

True, but then they only have 3 days to take you from riding a push bike to a 500cc+ engine. If you ask me, no rider with this amount experience is safe or in control on public roads.

Depends how you view it. I see it as more of a neccesity rather than advanced learning.
When i was learning for my CBT and mod 1 and they made you do the slalom, I was automatically switching between countersteering and normal steering what isnt a good combination and was hard for me to understand to begin with.

Anyway my (and dkid413) instructor taught us brilliantly out on some backroads (seperately) how to counter steer and it was not dangerous at all in anyway when i did it. It just feels like turning or another manouvre what is essential to biking.
If an inexperienced newbie comes into a corner too fast and at the wrong angle, counter steering could be the difference between crashing or not as it really turns the bike fast keeping it in control at very high speed and gripping the road so much better.

I think its just if not more important as learning the high speed manouvre in mod 1, and it was much easier to learn than emergency stops.
Big thumbs up to BMTC

Counter steering is explained so that you become aware and apply a certain amount of control to what your mind already does. Essentially, you can not lean a 2 wheel vehicle above a certain (low) speed without counter steering. We learned counter steering when we were kids and got started on the bicycle.

As for going too hot into a corner, there are quite a few other things just as important as conscious counter steering. It starts with learning to approach the corner at the right speed in the correct position, learning to fight destructive instincts such as chopping the throttle or breaking while leaned over, lifting your vision by looking at the exit point, keeping a positive throttle to increase traction on the rear wheel, move more body weight inside the corner to make the bike more upright and stable and a some other details thought trough advanced training and track time.

You can read about this stuff for free on the internet. Practicing them until they become second nature takes a lot more time than the regular riding school allocates for the DSA test.

Unless you've never exceeded 15-20 mph you countersteer, or you crash. Whether on a pushbike or a Harley. You learned to do it at about 5 years old when you wobbled and fell off your pushbike. The act of consciously pushing or pulling with greater force, just makes the bike lean and turn quicker.

(Reply to max cos ralph just bumped his post )
Yea its true but there are far too many hot heads and youths who do DAS, get a bike then kill themselves. They should have been riding slower, better positioned and etc but they dont and i think its just a useful thing to learn to help in an emergency situation, just like the emergency stops and the manouvres.
Even if it only saves 1 or 2 idiots a year, i think its worth it, although darwin would disagree

As i've said, I really rated the guys at BMTC but I have to agree with Maxinc when he says " The real learning starts once you've passed your test."
Never a truer word spoken. Don't think any of us were anywhere near the complete rider one day after tearing up the L plates.

As others have said, if you don't countersteer to a degree without thinking about it, you will fall off. I do also consciously add a bit of extra pressure on the inside handle sometimes, maybe to tighten up a corner a bit. I was taught conscious countersteering by all the instructors that I had for "big bike" lessons - it never occurred to me that they might not be supposed to.

++ In fact, while I've been typing the next stuff, I was thinking back and it even came up on my CBT. Anyway, back to where I was. ++

Mind you, I didn't really do the DAS as such. I did my CBT, then some follow up lessons on the NSR. Then did a couple of lessons on 500s. I didn't want to do one of the "DAS in a week" courses, partly because I couldn't afford the cost in money or hours off work, but also because I learned to drive in a week and I'm not sure I'd recommend it. So I learned to ride day-to-day on the NSR and then had a lesson on a 500 to assess how I was doing and refine my technique. On those lessons, countersteering was as important as road position or hazard anticipation - it just became part of how I rode. A month or so of that and I felt comfortable on a range of bikes and ready to take my test.

Personally I find it hard to believe that instructors would be told not to teach countersteering right from the beginning. Something that you do unconsciously anyway isn't an "advanced technique", it's a basic skill. Of course they should teach it although, maybe teach is the wrong word. Make aware of is probably better. Not teaching it is like not teaching you to lean, because knee-sliding is advanced.

[Bibio]

countersteering. everyone does it naturally as if you never you would crash on every corner. forced countersteering is when you actively input more pressure to the bar to tip in quicker.