Habeas Corpus

[Viney]

Originally Posted by keithd

from a horses mouth...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2...rity.terrorism

A r s e. There goes my argument.

i shall just go back upder my rock

It's the most basic right not to lock an innocent man up. Besides, there are exeptional circumstances rules for situations which require this kind of action. The only reason this has been passed is so it can be acted upon easily, and frequently.

How likely is it that someone involved in terror will require much evidence gathering?! It's not a small crime easily hidden.

Would it have helped in ANY of the terrorist attacks? Has the current 28 days proven to help at all? NO

Have there been massive abuse of these laws already? Hell yeah.

It's sickening and just another building block of the police state.

[northwind]

We were in more day to day danger for terrorism during the "troubles", and yet somehow we got by without 42 days...

Can't get on youtube from work, but go and search for roy zimmerman, "that is the war on terror"

"There's that great quote about war, and I'm trying to remember who said it. That the people can always be brought to do the bidding of the leaders.
You just tell them they're under attack,
and denounce the pacifists for lack
of patriotism, now who said that? -
Oh yeah, it was Herman Goering

And that is the War on Terror"

Those that cry out that you live in an ever increasing Police State culture really do for me get carried away with the whole thing. For me ID cards(I have had to carry one with me for the last 8 years-though it does not contain some of the personal info some are trying to push to be included in the UK one) are no big deal Should I ever get stopped by the police or asked in a shop or bank to prove my ID I can do so.

Over zealous powers of arrest and detention for suspected terorists? I have no problem with that at all as I feel I would never be dragged in myself. One can only hope that the investigation leading to any arrest has been carried out professionally and diligently before the arrest warrant can be issued. Hence,although 42 days are allowed for them to button down the case for court appearances or official charges to be made that should prove to be,(hopefully) way more than ever required.

Arresting one person and holding them for 42 days is a small price to pay in my mind when we consider the havoc just one terrorist can cause. The arguments that say we only have a terrorist incident every Preston Guild, and so we do not need this.....are in my mind wrong. just maybe the authorities are ever more vigilant and their methods are working and making it more difficult for these people.

We can rant and rave from a distance. But God Forbid any of our lives or loved one's are devastated by the acts of terrorism. Put in that situation I very much doubt the money mentioned to hold a suspect would be begrudged. Lose a family member to a bomb or bullet and I am sure you would readilly if able,pay that 5k a day to have that person back safe with you.

But then again,what do I know?

Originally Posted by Pedrosa

Those that cry out that you live in an ever increasing Police State culture really do for me get carried away with the whole thing. For me ID cards(I have had to carry one with me for the last 8 years-though it does not contain some of the personal info some are trying to push to be included in the UK one) are no big deal Should I ever get stopped by the police or asked in a shop or bank to prove my ID I can do so.

And, given time and the will to do it, I could prove I was you as well. ID cards mean nothing but a warm fuzzy "Oh I'm safe now feeling".

Over zealous powers of arrest and detention for suspected terorists? I have no problem with that at all as I feel I would never be dragged in myself.

So it's OK as long as it doesn't effect you??

One can only hope that the investigation leading to any arrest has been carried out professionally and diligently before the arrest warrant can be issued.

Hope is really no where near the level of expectation we should have on our police force

Hence,although 42 days are allowed for them to button down the case for court appearances or official charges to be made that should prove to be,(hopefully) way more than ever required.

So you don't think it's a possiblilty that it would work the other way round ever? Let's pick this guy up, I'm sure we can find something against him in 28 days, or if we need to we can now extend it, as long as we can convince a judge.

Arresting one person and holding them for 42 days is a small price to pay in my mind when we consider the havoc just one terrorist can cause. The arguments that say we only have a terrorist incident every Preston Guild, and so we do not need this.....are in my mind wrong. just maybe the authorities are ever more vigilant and their methods are working and making it more difficult for these people.

Rubbish. If I was that way inclined I could probably commit an "terrorist outrage" on the way home, or with only a couple of days of planning. Thinking back to the bomber who targeted gay bars in Soho. The police had no idea of what he was planning, because he was a lone person. Nothing will stop people dedicated enough from committing terrorist acts.

We can rant and rave from a distance. But God Forbid any of our lives or loved one's are devastated by the acts of terrorism. Put in that situation I very much doubt the money mentioned to hold a suspect would be begrudged. Lose a family member to a bomb or bullet and I am sure you would readilly if able,pay that 5k a day to have that person back safe with you.

It's just the cynical way the govt added the "Oh well, if we don't charge them we'll pay them cash" line, as if that made everything OK, like a National Terrorism Act Lottery.

Originally Posted by Pedrosa

We can rant and rave from a distance. But God Forbid any of our lives or loved one's are devastated by the acts of terrorism. Put in that situation I very much doubt the money mentioned to hold a suspect would be begrudged. Lose a family member to a bomb or bullet and I am sure you would readilly if able,pay that 5k a day to have that person back safe with you.

And should you die riding a motorbike, which is infinitely more likely than you ever getting blown up, would you like your family to crusade in your name to have biking banned?

Either way, this is why it's unwise to listen to victims, or families of victims, because they're often the least objective and thus incapable of making any balanced judgment on what's best for the general population.

[Messie]

OMG never thought I'd agree with a Conservative MP

Is there any hope for me now?

[Stu]

Humiliating Victory

I loved that quote from an SDLP guy last night

[northwind]

Originally Posted by Pedrosa

Over zealous powers of arrest and detention for suspected terorists? I have no problem with that at all as I feel I would never be dragged in myself. One can only hope that the investigation leading to any arrest has been carried out professionally and diligently before the arrest warrant can be issued. Hence,although 42 days are allowed for them to button down the case for court appearances or official charges to be made that should prove to be,(hopefully) way more than ever required.

Just to name one recent occasion existing anti-terrorist legislation has been deployed against the public- it was used to detain protestors on their way to Gleneagles during the G8 summit, who had committed no crime and who were most likely going to commit no crime, simply travelling on their way to a peaceful protest on public roads.

And if the 42 days should prove to be more than needed, why do they ask for it?

[Stu]

Originally Posted by northwind

Just to name one recent occasion existing anti-terrorist legislation has been deployed against the public- it was used to detain protestors on their way to Gleneagles during the G8 summit, who had committed no crime and who were most likely going to commit no crime, simply travelling on their way to a peaceful protest on public roads.
?

That's just my thinking on the law against protesting within 1 mile of Parliament. There's no chance that someone would launch an attack on Parliament from a protest. If they wanted to attack, they would just do it.

And the fact that there is still an ongoing protest right in front of Parliament since before the legislation was introduced (therefore allowed) makes a mockery of it.