An Open Letter to Gordon Brown

[Spiderman]

Originally Posted by 600+

I think this is where you missed my point initially I never chose sides. I have been saying that Israel is doing the same thing the uk is doing elsewhere. If you or I don't like it then don't send letters and criticise the civiliants of each country. Do something about it!

Yes and its sickening to me an many, many other people. He should be indicted for war crimes especially since his recent admission that WMD was a good reason for going to war but f that reason hadn't wont cabinet approval he would have found something lese since "saddam had to go". So he has by his own admission taken part in a clearly defined crime against humanity. No one is allowed to use military might to remove a head of state, this is a war crime.

It'll be interesting to see what he says when he's called forward to the whitewash that is the Iraq War Enquiry tho.

[the_lone_wolf]

Originally Posted by 600+

I have been saying that Israel is doing the same thing the uk is doing elsewhere.

And that analogy was already shown to be false way back this morning, just because you repeat it doesn't make it valid...

Originally Posted by 600+

There were no WMD in Iraq either and neither were in cossovo. Didn't see anyone from the uk doing anything about it. Mr Blair is out at large enjoying his fat big paycheck while he destroyed a country

Completely irrelevant, why would the actions of one country absolve another of it's war crimes?

[yorkie_chris]

Originally Posted by 600+

Drivel? Sure! Funny that my response to TLW has not been commented on! I guess you are only good for supporting the arguments for what you see as unjust but you fail miserably to acknowledge that it was the uk that created this and still it's the uk that support this.

Why are the actions of 'our' government our problem? I did not vote for this shower.
Anyway, was the original splitting of Israel/Palestine not a UN decision in 1946? Which seemed to put all the fertile and profitable land in Jewish hands. Obviously that was going to start a war.

Originally Posted by 600+

Israel has the same right to defend themselves in the same way

Defending your borders against insurgence is one thing, pushing an entire population into ghettos is quite another.

Originally Posted by 600+

Indeed you have no right and cosovo was another collaborative action from the UN and the uk sent troops there to assist.

We here should stop criticising what is happening in every single place around the world when

1) we created the mess
2) we do nothing to sort it out. And I mean practically nothing. Sending letters is good for when they run out of toilet paper in London.

1) who is "we"
2) what do you want me to do? Go there and fend of mervaka MBT's with my shotgun and a pick handle?

Originally Posted by 600+

I think this is where you missed my point initially I never chose sides. I have been saying that Israel is doing the same thing the uk is doing elsewhere. If you or I don't like it then don't send letters and criticise the civiliants of each country. Do something about it!

You seem to have been pretty fervent in defending the IDF attacks on civilians.

[maviczap]

Originally Posted by 600+

One has to protect themselves and as we do with Iraq & Afganistan similarly other countries do with what they consider a risk.

If you'd seen the Ross Kemp program on Gazza, then you would have seen what the Isrerali's have done to Gazza.

The UN envoy to Gazza was highly crtical of their tatics in the last assault, where they took out the infrastructure of Gazza, schools, hospitals, civic offices etc.

They will claim that Hamas were using these as terrorist bases, but they also took out factories and the blockade has caused at least 100,000 to become unemployed, directly or indirectly. How are you meant to survive if you have no job. Who are you going to take your anger out on?

Its a very complex situation and even the some of the Palestinian's interviewed were very critical of Hamas and they'd rather be at peace with the Isreali's. There are agendas on both sides, that can't be comprehended.

But what nearly bought me to tears was the children interviewed at a psychiatric clinic who described their mothers, fathers sisters, grandmothers being shot by the Isreali's

Defend yes, but this?

I'll watch the 2nd part on Sunday, to get the Isreali side of the story, but like I said it opened my eyes.

The United Kingdom should just keep out of other countries business. If countries want to attack each other for whatever reason then let them.
If they attack us then wipe them off the face of the earth.
Radical...yes.
Do I care...no
Why....because they do not care about us.

Ste.

[Spiderman]

What most people are sadly unaware of is that Hamas offered israel a 10yr ceasefire and withdrew it call to destroy israel a few years ago now. They said they have to deal with the reality that is israel and try to do whats est for their people.
Israel on the other hand have time and time again done everything they can to antagonise the situation, by building walls onto land that is not theirs, by kidnapping civilians, including children, in the night at gunpoint and locking them away in secret prisons without trial and all manner of other ways to get hamas to retaliate the only way it can, with its puny unguided rockets so they can say "look they are firing rockets at us again"

Forget Ross Kemp btw, its sensationalist TV (he says not having seen it, lol) but if you want some real truths from the ground watch this. http://www.democracynow.org/blog/200...one_year_later
Its a bit long winded but if you want to hear about the reality of what israel are doing to destroy and chance of peace its well worth watching.

[Bibio]

why should we bother what happens over i the middle east.?

pull all the troops out and let them get on with it i say. if we never intervened then some of it would be settled out by now. they have been at it for thousands of years, who are we to try and stop it. instead we incite it.

[maviczap]

Originally Posted by Spiderman

Forget Ross Kemp btw, its sensationalist TV (he says not having seen it, lol) but if you want some real truths from the ground watch this. http://www.democracynow.org/blog/200...one_year_later
Its a bit long winded but if you want to hear about the reality of what israel are doing to destroy and chance of peace its well worth watching.

H'mm thats the one thing I could happily say about that prog, it certainly wasn't sensationalist, at least not to my eyes.

[Spiderman]

Originally Posted by Bibio

why should we bother what happens over i the middle east.?

for the natural gas and oil of course. Things the west dont have an abundance of.

Originally Posted by Bibio

if we never intervened then some of it would be settled out by now. they have been at it for thousands of years, who are we to try and stop it. instead we incite it.

Imagine how thw world would be if saddam had been left in place. Quite peaceful really. He was in no way a threat (not militarily anyway) to the west or any of his neighbours. The 2 previous iraq was had seen to that. yes he was a dictator but one who kept some semblance of stability in the region. Sadly, cos he wouldnt play ball with the uk and us they decided he had to go and be replaced with a puppet they could control better.

lets not forget this


At one time he was on good terms with the people who later had him hung by the neck for daring to go against them.

Originally Posted by maviczap

H'mm thats the one I could happily say about that prog, it certainly wasn't sensationalist, at least not to my eyes.

Well perhaps i can find it online and give it a go then.

[Bibio]

Originally Posted by Spiderman

for the natural gas and oil of course. Things the west dont have an abundance of.

teeehhheeeeeee, thats funny.

do you honestly think the government/s give a rats arz about the oil and gas, after all who is it that really needs it? yup you guessed us public.

war games, thats what its all about, the money to be made selling the latest and greatest 'arms' is way more profitable then oil or gas will ever be.

not to mention all the public money the government/s can waste as aposed to spend it where it matters. ever noticed how the government has no money or very little for 'natural disasters', education and health in this country but can find billions when it comes to 'keeping peace'.