Undertaking - what's the penalty?

[yorkie_chris]

Originally Posted by Woz

Increasing? I'm registered to teach Pass Plus and I'm not seeing any increase. Quite the opposite actually.

It's because it doesn't work, £100+ on a course that makes your insurance a fiver cheaper.

Whichever genius thought it up missed the point that there needs to be a point to going on courses.

Originally Posted by yorkie_chris

It's because it doesn't work, £100+ on a course that makes your insurance a fiver cheaper.

Whichever genius thought it up missed the point that there needs to be a point to going on courses.

This is just silly. Most people are who take further training are not motivated by financial reward. Why assume that everybody is like you?

M25 has seen a massive liberalisation of lane discipline very suddenly over the last 5 years. Undertaking seems to be accepted as almost normal. I'm not that anti, but ffs enshrine it in law or book 'em!

Originally Posted by G

Surely it's only undertaking if you acutally undertake by definition.

If you are in lane 1, and they are in lane 2 (generic Middle Lane Moron)... you are making progress at 70mph, the speed allowed in lane 1, they are doing 60mph in lane 2. If you pass them in lane 1 and remain in lane 1 then it's not undertaking, you are just making progress.

If you are in Lane 3, they are in lane 3... lane 2 is not clear but there is adequate space to move into lane 2 to pass the person blocking lane 3, to then move back into lane 3 yourself... that is undertaking.

There is definately a difference between passing on the left and actually deliberetly undertaking.

I don't think you are allowed to pass on the left on an empty motorway, dangerous IMO.

I knew you were allowed to pass on the left if the flow of traffic was faster in that lane, but if you and the lane hogger are the only traffic...

The difference between the two is that in heavy traffic, the driver to right has good reason to expect you to be there and expect there to be traffic passing on his left as speeds between lanes vary.

On an empty motorway, a lane hogger is not paying full atention anyway, and he's not expecting anything to pass him on the left, so may change lane to the left without looking.

Never undertake a truck unless in heavy traffic, there's a damn good chance he won't see you due to a massive blind spot, return to lane 1, and side swipe you.

I have been guilty of passing a vehicle in lane 2, when in lane 1, just to make a point to the lane hogger, and because I can't be bothered to cross three lanes and back, but if a copper saw me doing it I'd fully expect to get a lecture.

Originally Posted by skidmarx

This is just silly. Most people are who take further training are not motivated by financial reward. Why assume that everybody is like you?

I disagree. The vast majority of people that take up Pass Pluss do it purely for any insurance discount they might get (which can be huge YC but like all insurance, varies wildly).

Originally Posted by Woz

I disagree. The vast majority of people that take up Pass Pluss do it purely for any insurance discount they might get (which can be huge YC but like all insurance, varies wildly).

I agree with this, Most if not all the people I know who have taken Pass Plus have been motivated to do so primarily because they can save on insurance and as YC says, if you are not going to save more than it costs to do the course that is a big incentive taken away.

Originally Posted by Woz

Increasing? I'm registered to teach Pass Plus and I'm not seeing any increase. Quite the opposite actually.

see our local stats are showing a year on year increase for the past three years of 15 -20%
evaluation shows that those taking up the course want to learn more skills, become more confident, the insurance discount is low and we still have an insurance company signed up to offer preferential discounts. (most now do not get their own policies approx 55-60%)

Among the youngsters I think we can attribute the fact that now we have traffic cops within our area that are taking everyone for everything possible (glad i know the top one and can blag my way out of things and becuase we funded their speed cameras!)
and we have had 8 under 21's dies in the same time frame in car accidents one being particulary horrific and this affect the whole school normally.

in the older age group its a confidence thing - its all changed from when they learned first time and they want to be able to cope.
The trend is happening accross neighbouring authorities too.
Sorry it ain't happening for you. and YC there is a point to the course not just financial gain

Out of interest Quedos, which local authority are you talking about? I ask because some will heavily subsidise Pass Plus (or even pay for it outright) which makes a huge difference in the numbers taking it.

Unfortunately, my council doesn't

Woz - East Dunbartonshire - 1st year subsidise by £100 to gain interest, 2nd year £50 and oversubscribed three fold despite the reduction 3rd year no subsides but still increasing - payments are only for under 25's though.
I think this funding has gone in all neighbouring authorities too.
in our 2nd year we had the worst RTC in a long time with 4 under 21's killed 2 outright when a new driver lost control on the rural roads - she had only passed her test 3 days before and it was driver error Such a loss and really hit the school and young people hard

Originally Posted by Quedos

worst RTC in a long time... she had only passed her test 3 days before and it was driver error

See, right there, the root of the problem

Originally Posted by Quedos

Woz - East Dunbartonshire

That makes sense. I know quite a few Scottish authorities promote it very heavily. Unfortunately, only a handful of English authorities do the same

It also doesn't help that there are instances of unscrupulous instructors that will happily sell someone a Pass Plus certificate without ever seeing them drive.