Vegetarians .. Vegans and the like …

Originally Posted by Blue_SV650S

What about kids that would be so severely disabled/ill they have to live their short lives on dialysis (or whatever) or spend most of it in and out of hospitals? They are only able to be kept alive with assistance?!? At least the animals are being borne with a purpose ...

I’d say that we have many levels here, the severely disabled/ill that might be coupled to mass farmed animals who have a very low standard of life, and then lightly disabled that could be coupled with a ‘free range’ chicken or a cow that lives in a field …

The free-range and lightly disabled are an easy call … but what about the severely disabled and mass farmed?!?!

Ahh but there is a major difference. One is unfortunate, the other is intentional and planned. Would you conceive the severely disabled humans intentionally, knowing the sort of life they would have? I know I wouldn't. But that's a far cry from aborting one post conception.

Originally Posted by Blue_SV650S

What about kids that would be so severely disabled/ill they have to live their short lives on dialysis (or whatever) or spend most of it in and out of hospitals? They are only able to be kept alive with assistance?!? At least the animals are being borne with a purpose ...

I’d say that we have many levels here, the severely disabled/ill that might be coupled to mass farmed animals who have a very low standard of life, and then lightly disabled that could be coupled with a ‘free range’ chicken or a cow that lives in a field …

The free-range and lightly disabled are an easy call … but what about the severely disabled and mass farmed?!?!

I don't agree that being kept alive with assistance, be it by dialysis or similar could be compared with an existance the equivalent to being kept in a cell, knee deep in sh@t, ammonia burning your lungs, your legs and the skin of your abdomen while those in you're immediate vicinity are in a similar state of misery and are also picking on and wounding you, you have no means of escape. Think of it in terms of a human living in those conditions. You wouldn't think that they had a quality of life better than a dialysis patient who other than their ilness leads a life closer to ours.

What if the person in the cell had a purpose...that their being in the cell was for a greater good (that they were unaware of as are the chickens) would that make their life worth living, would you be happy in that environment?

Many people overcome severe disabilities, illnesses...what would you class as severe disability? Stephen Hawking? The guy who played superman and became paralysed from the neck down? The guy from Todd Browning's 30's film 'Freaks' who despite being only a torso and a head could could light up and smoke a cigar amongst other things unassisted and became famous? What about the woman who's been immortalised as a sculpture...the thalidomide lady who doesn't have working/usable arms and legs but has successfully managed to lead as close to a normal life as possible and bring up a child?

I still think the person in the cell would argue that their quality of life was worse...

[northwind]

Originally Posted by RhythmJunkie

Mornin'..... NW ...I think that link was cramming lots of little quotes into too small a space without proper credentials. All the quotey bits come from vets, farmers and the like so I tend to believe them even though we don't see their words emblazoned across The News of The World front page!

I researched the qoutes this morning and they all seem fairly cosher! Its not a link I've used before....just plucked at random.

The very high 1 in 20 death rate you mention is probably related to pigs which are the most seriously affected. With sheep the number of fatalities is far lower more like 1 in 50 this doesn't look like a lethal epidemic virus wiping out whole flocks/herds as we are led to believe by the media now does it?

The 1/20 rate I quoted was from that article In fact, everything I mentioned was taken directly from that article, including the idiot vet with the "common cold" comment, and the ludicrous HIV comparison. The ELISA bit was what pushes it over the edge, whenever you get people linking in completely unconnected conspiracy theories you know you're on shaky ground. There's 5 paragraphs on mis-diagnosis, of which 4 are about a different virus and factually flawed, tells you something, no? When you don't have any evidence to back up your report, talk about something else! More argument by rumour. It's just a very bad conspiracy piece.

As a general rule, anything that's headlined "The Truth About" is going to turn out to be c**p

Originally Posted by LouLou

...

Hey, I have said I think that mass farming is hideous/disturbing, so you don't need to highlight the squalor to me

However, I am still not convinced that bringing humans into this world knowing they will have a lower standard of living is that far removed from breeding animals for mass farming. We don’t even ‘need’ more humans!!!

Ok, so if we already have a foetus then indeed, it is at a different level at that point. So lets take that out of the running and just view it form ‘high risk’ parents choosing to go ahead. I.e. those that have a high probability of having a child with problems … I am not so sure that is that far removed …

A child that will spend all its life hooked up to a machine or in a hospital ward etc etc has a very low standard of living compared to a 100% healthy child … all a chicken or cows can hope for is to run round a field!!

Personally I think the EU should put in tighter regulations re mass farming and the way animals are kept. I don’t think it should be stopped, just standard of living improved … sure meat prices will rise, but so what?

Originally Posted by Blue_SV650S

Personally I think the EU should put in tighter regulations re mass farming and the way animals are kept. I don’t think it should be stopped, just standard of living improved … sure meat prices will rise, but so what?

you hippy!

Originally Posted by sarah

you hippy!

Not quite, I think we should slaughter 2/3 of the humans to make the problem of the need for MASS farming go away!!

I think we need less humans, not more animals

Originally Posted by Blue_SV650S

Not quite, I think we should slaughter 2/3 of the humans to make the problem of the need for MASS farming go away!!

I think we need less humans, not more animals

that could work!

the roads would be great too if they weren't so busy.

Originally Posted by sarah

that could work!

the roads would be great too if they weren't so busy.

It solves a lot of 'problems' ... like pollution, famine, stripping mother earth of her resources etc etc

I tell ya, its the humans that are the problem!!

Who would vote me in as world leader?!!?

Originally Posted by Blue_SV650S

It solves a lot of 'problems' ... like pollution, famine, stripping mother earth of her resources etc etc

I tell ya, its the humans that are the problem!!

can't disagree with that

Originally Posted by Blue_SV650S

Who would vote me in as world leader?!!?

depends if i was one of the people you plan on slaughtering

On topic, although there are some instances where im disgusted with how animals are kept...in reality it doesn't stop us, as consumers, from perpetuating the cycle. We all know KFC is made from retarded chickens...but we still buy it. The Colonel has pulled a fast one in this instance. I personally will buy the meat i think looks the best...factory farmed or free range.

I wouldn't be overly happy if the EU spewed out more legislation...and in reality think of the expense of enforcing these standards. Meat/animals would just be imported from overseas where the standards are lower.

You also have to think of the impact on the farmers. Could they afford to make the transition...free range is hardly cost effective. Also what about exports of British meat to overseas....the price rise would put an end to that. Then again BSE/Foot&Mouth has done a good job of that.

Whilst some people might construe this response as a cheapening of life...we have to consider animal stock for what it is....essentially we are growing food. In an ideal world(i hate that phrase...) the animals would lead rich fulfilling lives and when they die of natural causes we munch them....its not practical though is it.

To a limited extent i agree that the enimals should be kept in reasonable conditions...but in reality if the meat is of the same standard i would always buy the cheaper one, factory farmed or not.