Fork adjusters

you appear to have something box-shaped stuck to the back fo your bike????

Originally Posted by gajjii

It was until a white van's mirror did this:

Araldite should fix that

Matt

As you well know northy, compression damping is there to slow the rate at which the spring is compressed; not to provide springiness! Basically if you put treacle in there you would struggle to ‘bounce’ the suspension as it is so heavily damped, I suppose it might give the illusion of being ‘stiffer’ … However in actual fact, stick a 10kg weight on the front and the nose of the bike will go down X mm just the same as if you put water in there … the only difference is that with the treacle it would take much longer to sink to X mm!! …

I suppose we are talking more about compliance than stiffness …

The SV is fitted with a damper rod mechanism for the damping, which is in essence a simple orifice setup, as such the damping force grows with the square of the velocity. So unfortunately although increasing the oil weight will improve slow speed damping and make the bike feel more solid at the front (as it sinks slower), the suspension would then tend toward not being compliant enough and ‘spike’ the rider on high speed (sharp) bumps.

The reason the SVs front end feels so poor is the damper rod setup … with damper rods you are dammed if you do, dammed if you don’t or in non Bart Simpson terms, with damper rod damping, there is a large dichotomy between achieving acceptable high and low speed compression - it is this that is the nightmare, not the spring rate!!

So back to the start, the only true way to 'stiffen' the suspension (and not sacrifice compliance) is to increase the spring rate (and then add the appropriate new oil to accompany its rate).

SO blue, is there anything that can be done to mod the standard forks to make the damping better? Some people have mentioned emulators, what do these do and how effective are they?

Matt

Yes, you need to get rid of the damper rods!!!

The better method of doing business is like you find in ‘cartridge’ forks – prolly best if you do a bit of goggle-fu - but essentially in a cartridge fork you have ‘petals’, these are little thin/flexible discs of springy metal that close a much larger damping hole. When you try and pass fluid through the hole/petal (compress the fork), the petal bends/opens allowing flow (hence movement) it provides the physical damping in much the same way as an damper rod at this point, but the beauty of using petals is that you essentially have a variable diameter orifice so you can have a much wider range of controlled operation!! Lovely!!

Picture it, the quicker you you try and push fluid through, the more the petals will bend/open allowing faster flow of fluid, unlike the damper rod So, logically buy ‘stacking’ the appropriate stiffness petals you can get much better controlled high speed damping, whilst still allowing controlled low speed damping!!

An ‘emulator’ is basically just that, it is emulating this superior cartridge setup. In the SV you drill the damper rods to lessen/try and negate their effect and slot the emulator in there. The emulator has/is a little (yet basic) petal stack – job done!! … unfortunately its not as good as a full cartridge as the emulator only works on the compression damping (and is very basic/crude in design) …

Picture speaks a thousand words!!

Damper rod:-



proper cartridge:-



Emulator:-

I see, thanks blue! How much more of a differance do they make, and coupled with some decent springs (e.g. ohlins), is it a good upgrade for the price?

Matt

[pmapp]

Originally Posted by alpinestarhero

I see, thanks blue! How much more of a differance do they make, and coupled with some decent springs (e.g. ohlins), is it a good upgrade for the price?

Matt

I should be able to tell you after crimbo - thats my job for boxing day

Originally Posted by alpinestarhero

I see, thanks blue! How much more of a differance do they make, and coupled with some decent springs (e.g. ohlins), is it a good upgrade for the price?

Matt

Even with emulators, its no cartridge fork and still feels a bit ‘clunky’ … but it is a massive improvement over stock, you instantly feel more confident in the front!!

If you are lacking confidence in the front, then it is ~£200 well spent!

I have emulators, 15w oil and 80 Racetech springs in my trackbike and – although not as planted as full cartridge forks I have ridden, it’s a very good setup!! – you have seen the antics I get up to on my trackbike, the upgrade kinda speaks for itself

However I have totally standard setup in my roadibke … its rubbish, but it does all I need it to and I can’t justify spending £200 on something that is already doing all I need of it …

So essential upgrade – probably not – makes a noticeable difference when done – very much so

The choice is yours

Ta blue. I'll keep it in mind for the future when im finding limits; at the moment I'm finding that simply becoming a better rider gives me better feeling and response from the front, so I dont need to do any upgrading of the bike yet. Might want a new rear shock at some point, i expect thats a bit tired by now!

Ok, you can all go back to arguing and whatnot

Matt