Soldier,soldier.

Originally Posted by Pedrosa

But you know what I found more worrying? When the Army was deployed in Northern Ireland. That must have been so difficult to handle. I mean it's just like home!

Same climate, green fields, same cars and driving on same side of road. Terraces and semi's just like back in your home town. Civvies merge with soldiers on their reccy time. Yet turning any corner,or being sat in any bar could see you subject to any kind of barborous attack.
I
have to admit that would have really screwed my head up!

When i was in NI (99-02) it was starting to calm down a bit and the differance between the start of my tour and end was noticable. Admitiadly i did not patrol on foot due to my job but we use to spend every day driving around the province in civies and civy cars doing comms going to some real dodgy areas and in a way it looking like home use to lull us into a safe mind set. I can really comment on what it would have been like for the infantry doing 6 month tours never getting out etc, yes i imagine that would have done my head in to. But for Me NI was the best 3 years of my time so far. Loved the job out there.

Originally Posted by Lozzo

QRs state quite clearly that soldiers must not take certain social drugs, and if found to have done so then disciplinary measures will be taken. Those measures include dismissal from the services.

It's really quite simple. If you want to keep your job, don't do drugs.

It's really quite simple. If you don't want a ticket, don't speed...

...Easy response depending on which side of the fence you sit on..

Why not get them some decent kit, intelligence and support before worrying about what they do in their private time.

Speeding as a civvie and drug taking as a serving member of the forces are two very different offences, not really any comparrison.

I fully agree on the better kit and support issues, but can't agree on anyone using drugs as a recreational thing, not even as civvies.

Regardless as to whether you agree with the "recreational" use of drugs by soldiers/sailors/airmen when on leave after Iraq etc, or disagree,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

It does highlight the dreadfull way that our service men/women are treated upon their return. I totally agree with the comment posted earlier about being on a "high" of naturally induced hormones etc with being on a hightened state when out there, then to totally come down upon your return.

As much as it pains me to say this, our cousins in the good ole US of A do get it right when it comes to their attitude towards veterans. Especially as the whole country now agrees that the way Vietnam vets were treated was wrong.

If a US soldier is found to have used drugs post Iraq/Afghanistan, he/she doesn't get kicked out, but is given treatment to help them cope with whatever demons it is that's haunting them.

When are our glorious (b)leaders going to wake up and smell the coffee ???????????????????

its all well and good finding out these figures of the number of service men and woman using and being kicked out but is anyone going to do anything about the real problem as to WHY they are doing it? will these numbers actually change anything?

Drugs are more commonly used in this day as a recreation thing. It's more part of society than it once was. There is also the fact that to recruit more people into the services they have had to make the job more appealing to the masses. They have civilianized the role of being a soldier to appeal to more people. As a consequence of that a soldier is a different type of person and character than of old. They now socialise pretty much the same as a civilian. Years ago that would not have been the case.

Forces personnel taking drugs should not be tolerated. End of. All of those service men and women that have been caught taking drugs knew that if they were caught they would lose their jobs. So what's the problem?

I'm with Ape and Lozzo on this. In the armed forces, you expect discipline, and that includes self-discipline.

But there are always exceptions: if drug use is because of say PTSD then I do think that help should be offered as a condition of staying in - assuming they want to, of course. I don't think anything can prepare an 18 year old for some of the things they will see in some of the world's less friendly places. Immediately after NATO was deployed to the Balkans there were some harrowing scenes on TV - wouldn't be acceptable to air them now in the sanitised modern TV arena - and I do think that we have to accept that there is only a certain amount that anyone, soldiers included, can be expected to take.

Besides, what is the financial cost of kicking out people who are otherwise perfectly good members of their unit?

Originally Posted by WRCSixtyThree

Incidence of drug use has quadrupled since 2003. Something must have happened in 2003, can anyone think what it might be???

More compulsory drug testing?

Oh yeah alcohol is a drug, but they sell that to soldiers cheap...

Originally Posted by Ed

I'm with Ape and Lozzo on this. In the armed forces, you expect discipline, and that includes self-discipline.

But there are always exceptions: if drug use is because of say PTSD then I do think that help should be offered as a condition of staying in - assuming they want to, of course. I don't think anything can prepare an 18 year old for some of the things they will see in some of the world's less friendly places. Immediately after NATO was deployed to the Balkans there were some harrowing scenes on TV - wouldn't be acceptable to air them now in the sanitised modern TV arena - and I do think that we have to accept that there is only a certain amount that anyone, soldiers included, can be expected to take.

Besides, what is the financial cost of kicking out people who are otherwise perfectly good members of their unit?

Ed - I couldn't agree with you more.

I've often read your posts and been at total odds with what your argument is, but this time I'm in agreement.

As ex-RAF I agree that there is ABSOLUTELY no place for drugs in the Armed Forces, but questions need to be asked "WHY ?".

You commented above about drugs and PTSD - you were right on the money with that one. Is that not maybe why the young soldiers turn to drugs in the first place, or why anyone might turn to drugs.

To block out the bad memories ?????, to escape to a place where no-one can hurt them ?????

IF "real treatment that is fit for the purpose" was available in the first place would it stop illegal drug taking in the Armed Forces ???

IMO it wouldn't eradicate it completely (due in no small part to the society we now live in), but I do feel that it would make a significant reduction. Certainly stopping a battalion's worth being kicked out. Also in these days of frugal expenditure for every one kicked out, another has to be recruited, trained, given clothing etc, with the clothing etc given to the one kicked out disposed of - anyone with half a business brain can work out that this makes no business sense at all, and only costs more each year.