so she obviously deserved it...

[anna]

..unfortunately your not on your own in this way of thinking .. a very intriguing radio interview i've been listening to this morning also had similar views on this!..

I actually believe that in no way should the fact that you have been drinking affect any sort of compensation you get or sway anyones judgement about the fact that rape is rape. I'm sorry but a consequence of getting drunk in my mind is having a good night with good friends.. not getting raped, losing my bag etc it's poposturous to say such a thing.

What your saying is that it's their own fault that they are unable to defend themselves because they are drunk.. not that they might have been targeted for that reason..why should someone have to run away or defend themselves!.. It shouldnt happen in the first place.

[SoulKiss]

Originally Posted by the_lone_wolf

so, flame suit donned, bunker locked - "Submit Reply"...

Room in that bunker for one more?

While I think that rape is in many ways a worse crime than murder, alcohol DOES lower your ability to make decisions.

Decisions such as "Should I take this shortcut through this alley, rather than sticking to the main streets" or "well an unlicensed cab will be cheaper".

That can lead into dangerous situations.

I think that the right decision has been made if there is no reduction in compensation in the case mentioned, but putting yourself in the way of harm does mean you are contibuting to anything that happens.

[SoulKiss]

Originally Posted by anna

why should someone have to run away or defend themselves!.. It shouldnt happen in the first place.

They shouldn't but you are living in Disneyland if you think you can get away with ignoring the posibility.

Everything we do is a risk, crossing the street, getting on a bike, whatever.

Adding alcohol to the mix just increases some risks.

No woman should EVER be blamed for being raped, and I definately dont buy the people who say that wearing certain clothing means they were "asking for it", I used to goto The Slimelight years ago and I would see girls wearing, well not a lot, and there was never any trouble of that kind.

It is however VERY nieve not to know that there are people out there that will take advantage of you if they think they are weaker, or less capeable than someone else.

Like the 3 guys who tried to mug me outside my front door (well in the street) after I had had a few drinks.

Seems that some people are confusing the issue. Being drunk probably does make you more likely to be a victim of crime due to being less careful than you would otherwise be. But, that doesn't mean that you deserve to have bad stuff happen to you or make it your fault.

[anna]

I hate the blame culture as much as the next person but this isnt part of the blame culture this is a crime that has been committed against another person and so some sort of comensation is yes justified!

David I'm sorry but I just disagree with this view your saying that decisions that you make such make you be held accountable for whether you are raped or not. I'm sorry I dont see it this way rape is something that happens to you, that take your choices out of your hands it's not consenting hence the term rape.. therefore surely the idea of whether you have been drinking or not is irrelevant!

Is there one single answer to this issue? I can't say that there is, but the way alcohol is treated in our society does cause major issues. With rape though, just because you're drunk and decide to take a different route doesn't mean in my mind that 'you're asking for it', but being so drunk that you can't remember consenting to sex is entering a very grey area.
I've been out in Southend enough to see what 'young ladies' get up to when they're slaughtered, and the blokes that they're doing it with in the middle of the street are just as ****ed!

One think I'm sure about, the only way that this issue will get better is with the way we view and consume alcohol.

[anna]

Originally Posted by SoulKiss

Like the 3 guys who tried to mug me outside my front door (well in the street) after I had had a few drinks.

.. and you see that it's your fault you got mugged because you had a few drinks?

Listen I fully understand where you are going with this so drinking puts you in a position that is vunerable.. but so is doing a lot of things .. does that mean that you shouldnt do it .. or when you do you are not able to have the crime commited against you recognised as after all you werent in complete control?

[the_lone_wolf]

Originally Posted by anna

I'm sorry but a consequence of getting drunk in my mind is having a good night with good friends.. not getting raped, losing my bag etc it's poposturous to say such a thing.

you go out specifically to get drunk?

i never said the act of raped was caused by someone being drunk, although you must surely be able to see how being completely rat-arsed makes you a likely target for someone looking out for a victim and reduces your ability to defend yourself?

Originally Posted by anna

What your saying is that it's their own fault that they are unable to defend themselves because they are drunk..

no, i specifically said in my previous post that there is no excuse for raping someone, but if you make yourself vunerable through your own irresponsible actions you might not like it but you should accept the consequences of your own stupidity

[SoulKiss]

Originally Posted by anna

David I'm sorry but I just disagree with this view your saying that decisions that you make such make you be held accountable for whether you are raped or not. I'm sorry I dont see it this way rape is something that happens to you, that take your choices out of your hands it's not consenting hence the term rape.. therefore surely the idea of whether you have been drinking or not is irrelevant!

I am not saying that she was not raped.

I am not saying that she does not deserve the full compensation that she is entitled to.

What I am saying is that if you do not do EVERYTHING you can to minimise what can happen to you, then you are are contributing to the situation.

How many threads do we have about wearing proper kit?

It has been said on here just today that anyone who is not riding properly kitted deserves everything that happens to them.

Walking the streets of London, alone, as a female, while having had a drink is the same as getting on your bike wearing speedos and a pair of flip-flops.

Its bad enough even when you are a bulky bearded bloke wearing bike kit at times and in places - I have been known to walk twice as far to get somewhere just because the shortcut didnt "feel right" at night in London.

I REALLY wish that the situation wasnt like it is, but not believing or allowing for it to be as it is is just naive.

[embee]

Putting aside any particular offence, do you think the concept of contributory negligence has any place in a justice system?

For example leaving you car unlocked with the keys in the ignition doesn't change the offence if some toerag drives off in it [TWOC], but you won't get any compensation, as in your insurance company won't pay up. OK the insurance co. isn't part of the justice system as such, but you get the drift.

I wouldn't walk through certain areas of certain towns at night [or at any time come to that]. If I was mugged it wouldn't change the offence, but personally I'd feel I had been negligent and my actions had contributed to the result.

Maybe I still hang on to some archaic concept of personal responsibility, but I recognise there's a real world out there and no-one ever said it was fair..........