Underage pregnancies.

i think it was more covered up when i was a kid, like if a young girl get pregnant, the girls mother would look after the baby, and it would become the younger brother/sister?

it seems now though youngster are proud of the fact thay have a few kids...... normaly with diferant dads, and no job

Originally Posted by ArtyLady

How old are you? were you there?

I need to have been there to form a perception of the time - but in order to get the truth of a time we turn to historical record. I suspect none of us on this forum were around during World War 1, but by going through.... the statistics we know what happened during it.

Originally Posted by Dicky Ticker

Lies dam lies and staistics,the greatest of these is statistics
Statistics are probably massaged by ASBO's other devious means

Let me get this straight - you're dismissing crime statistics and birth statistics as lies? And you're trumpeting your own perception as more reliable indicator of crime statistics across the nation and more reliable than hospital records of births?

Hell, don't get me wrong, statistics can be massaged for sure, but given the question "how many murders were there in year X" or how many pregnancies per thousand individuals in the 13-19 bracket were there in year Y" are you seriously suggesting to me that official figures are wrong and you, you are the correct source of such information?

Originally Posted by Dicky Ticker

PERHAPS YOU THINK THAT 13YEAR OLDS SHOULD HAVE BABIES

Awww bless, you completely missed the point and went for capitals to try to hide the fact No, I don't think they should - in fact given that teenage pregnancies were more common 20 years ago than they are now, I'd be tempted to say that my generation doesn't think they should but yours obviously did.



Rant? I haven't even begun to rant Every other thread on the 'Org these days seems to be whinging whining miserable little people claiming how much better it was in the old days. You're welcome to sit and moan in your corner if you like but if you say one thing when historical record shows something else expect to get pulled up on it

[quote=Dicky Ticker;1786473]This 13 year old has already been put under supervision for theft .drunkenness and assault. She had a taxi arrive every morning to take her to a special schoolquote]


So what you`re saying is that this is a child with special needs/learning difficulties? I really don`t think you can compare her situation to the rest of the teenage pregnancies. If this girl has special needs then I`d say its extremely unfair to be judging her. She obviously has behavioural problems and that`s maybe why she`s a repeat offender?

I have a friend who`s daugter got pregnant at 15.... my friend and her husband were in no way to blame for it, it was just unfortunately a case where a bit of a teenage grope went a bit too far. Her daughter is and has always been a fantastic mum since day one. She is now 24 and is studying to be a barrister.

I also have a 17 year old on my case load with 2 children, she had her first baby at 14. Again a fantastic mum and I`d trust her more than I`d trust some of the 30 year olds I see. She has her own housing association home, works part time and plans on going to college when her children are a bit older.

Another incident that has come to mind and I`ve never forgotten this young girl and often think of her. I was a student nurse and working on the labour ward.. this was 1991. One night a lovely, well mannered young girl just walked into the hospital and said I`m about to have a baby. She was 15 years old. She lived in Ireland and when she`d told her parents about the pregnancy they kicked her out and disowned her. She took her savings and came to Liverpool for an abortion but couldn`t go thru with it and decided to keep the baby. She was still a child herself when she gave birth but she didn`t cry once, she was in agony but didn`t complain and refused analgesia as she felt this pain was her punishment from god and she had to accept it for getting pregnant. She delivered a lovely little boy but I don`t know what happened to her after leaving hospital.. I bet she went on to be a fantastic parent too.

Yes there may be a lot of teenage pregnancies, it`s unfortunately a sign of the times but don`t be too quick to judge the situation or condemn families. Yes there are certain situations where you can say it`s the parents fault cos they obviously haven`t instilled good manners or good morals. Teenage pregnancy is, however, one of those areas where I just don`t think you can point a finger. I`d much rather see a family support their child through a pregnancy than kick her out on the street like that poor young Irish girl I nursed.

Whilst I have no idea about birth stats (and I have to say I don't think thta has happened in the last 18 years - as half my class had kids at 14 - and no I don't think that it's good) I do not beleive the crime stats.

It's a good old fudge of numbers (the same as the unemployed figures have been for the last 10 years or so).

Whe I passed my test i had someone hit my car when I was away from it. Reported it and got a crime number. Had a toussle with someone on the road a few years later and got an incident number. It's all in the name. An incident is not a crime - therefore if you make 10% (number from the top of my head) of crimes incidents you suddenly have 10% less crime. The fact that you can't leave you bike in many area's of the city is immaterial - crime is down (I'd like to see if there is a similar report that shows the combined incident and crime numbers available... and I don't even mind being proven wrong if they show it was better in the old days ).

As for not beleiving the authorities - remember that we are talking about the same goverment that uses the 30% speeding lie for accidents.

As for the special needs schools... There are multiple types... My cousin went to one for his special needs. His special needs being refusal to go to normal school and refusal to keep out of trouble.

Originally Posted by MavUK

As for the special needs schools... There are multiple types... My cousin went to one for his special needs. His special needs being refusal to go to normal school and refusal to keep out of trouble.

I notice your location is "near Amsterdam". Special schools in the UK are obv different to the special schools in your area.... see below

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_school


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special..._(Netherlands)

Originally Posted by MiniMatt

I need to have been there to form a perception of the time - but in order to get the truth of a time we turn to historical record. I suspect none of us on this forum were around during World War 1, but by going through.... the statistics we know what happened during it.



Let me get this straight - you're dismissing crime statistics and birth statistics as lies? And you're trumpeting your own perception as more reliable indicator of crime statistics across the nation and more reliable than hospital records of births?

Hell, don't get me wrong, statistics can be massaged for sure, but given the question "how many murders were there in year X" or how many pregnancies per thousand individuals in the 13-19 bracket were there in year Y" are you seriously suggesting to me that official figures are wrong and you, you are the correct source of such information?



Awww bless, you completely missed the point and went for capitals to try to hide the fact No, I don't think they should - in fact given that teenage pregnancies were more common 20 years ago than they are now, I'd be tempted to say that my generation doesn't think they should but yours obviously did.



Rant? I haven't even begun to rant Every other thread on the 'Org these days seems to be whinging whining miserable little people claiming how much better it was in the old days. You're welcome to sit and moan in your corner if you like but if you say one thing when historical record shows something else expect to get pulled up on it

You speak like someone who is very used to researching and quoting which is commendable, but IMO Historians may get very close to the facts but can never be completely sure their facts are 100% correct as they weren't there and they are relying on primary and secondary sources, witting and unwitting testimony. You do occasionally hear about a new evidence being uncovered about historical events which lead to different facts.

Fact of the matter is us oldies have life experiences and we can see first hand the differences from then to now. We are the "primary source" for the historical evidence we are speaking about.

I for one have never said it was better or worse back in the day but I do know that parents had more far more control over their children.

When I want to know what it was like to live in a certain decade, or a certain geographical area, I'm all for asking people.

When I want to find out how many babies were born however, I find the hospital records far more accurate. Similarly, if I want to find out how many murders there were on a given year I check police/court records.

Personal experience is great, it's fantastic, it gives a fuller rounder flavour in accounting for a time, but whose experience do you believe? Who has a more accurate picture of the 60s - the person who was 20 at the time, or the person who was 60? The person who lived in London at the time or the person who lived in Hull?

One man saying "my perception is right, everyone else's perception is wrong, I am right for all geographical areas, and what's more I'm more right than hospital birth records and police murder statistics" - that's just talking ******** however old you are.

[SoulKiss]

Originally Posted by MiniMatt

When I want to find out how many babies were born however, I find the hospital records far more accurate.

And the large number of home births that never went near a hospital - are those in those stats?

Raw figures are fine, but I (only 35) see things as being worse than they were 20 years ago - are they - I dont really know - but I do know that the school I went to had kids from about 6 big villages going to it and there were fights between the villages almost weekly (if not more - and if someone from one village hadnt done something to someone from another village this week, there was always the Catholic school down the road - Ayrshire was almost as bad as NI for that.......)

No knives were involved that I am aware of - the worst I ever heard of was a bike chain - and that may be pure myth.

I can't name a single girl in my year that got pregnant - despite some of them being, well a little generous with their affections - the biggest "scandel" was when it came out that a couple of the guys that were 15 had pulled (and were popping round at lunchtime) to visit a couple of twenty-somethings who's husbands were away on the oil-rigs (I had moved to Aberdeen by then).

Rose tinted glasses coupled with not hanging around with the "wrong crowd"?

Maybe.

[yorkie_chris]

[quote=Speedy Claire;1786935]

Originally Posted by Dicky Ticker

This 13 year old has already been put under supervision for theft .drunkenness and assault. She had a taxi arrive every morning to take her to a special schoolquote]


So what you`re saying is that this is a child with special needs/learning difficulties?

That is immaterial IMO, whoever is supposed to be responsible for her punishment/rehabilitation/education is obviously not doing too good a job of it. Whether that be through lack of powers/funding etc I don't know.


Minimatt you do always manage to make a sound and well supported argument, but I wouldn't trust the government figures you quote any further than I could throw them.
I am more inclined to believe that the current ease of maintaining a life without purpose and lack of consequence to actions is making the country a worse place overall.

To take an example from my Father, there are no unemployed in China. They do not have mechanised roadsweepers there, so there are no unemployed. Despite my hatred of communist regimes, I can see that system has its benefits (ba-dum-tsch).

Originally Posted by SoulKiss

And the large number of home births that never went near a hospital - are those in those stats?

Home births are one thing; suprise home births (that is ones that even the GP wasn't aware of before a baby popped out) are another; and stealth babies that the medical profession never knew were born, were never immunised and have never been entered on the register are something entirely different.

If you'd like to make an estimate of the number of babies out there who have never been registered, have never had a birth certificate and don't exist on any statistics at all then be my guest.