Overtaking in the blackwall tunnel.

[Red Herring]

I'm with Stu on this one. If the Op was suggesting that people who ride recklessly with no apparent concern for other road users deserve all they get then he'd have a great deal more support from me, but to imply that all overtakes in a particular tunnel are dangerous is a bit of a sweeping statement.

Originally Posted by thulfi

If you know blackwall tunnel, you'd know overtaking in certain parts of it in a car would certainly be hazardous.

Yeah, but the OP said you deserve to come off. You don't come off a car. You might come off in one if you're lucky and parked at make out point...

Originally Posted by Stuuk1

The reason for the rant was a **** on a bike that morning was so desperate to get past a car that the car attempted to move over to allow the idiot to pass. The car was bullied in to doing so

I don't care how much the bike "bullied" the car, if you as a car driver make a decision to move over in your lane then the consequences are yours and yours alone. I personally filter pretty much every time I go through the blackwall tunnel, and don't understand when people don't. However, I do it with the knowledge and skills that come from riding in this fair city for approaching 10 years, 4 of which were as a courier. Do you really think I deserve serious injury as a result? People that ride inconsiderately can be annoying, but you don't know all the facts: the rider may have been a ****. Or he may have been desperate for the toilet. Or his wife may have been taken to hospital with complications arising from pregnancy...

To generalise that any rider who does something you won't deserves to come off is amazingly judgemental and petty minded in my opinion.

In other words, crossing double solid lines inside a tunnel, braking the speed limit, intimidating, bulling or annoying other drivers is OK as long as you posses the necessary skills AND have an urgent need for a toilet ??!?

I will have to strongly disagree with you here and something tells me I'm not the only one.

I wish harm to no one BUT I have little sympathy for those with such attitude on the road.

My issue isn't with whether the OP agrees with what I do or not, but rather that he wishes me harm as a result of it. My point about needing the loo was slightly flippant: what I was trying to point out is that you don't know why the person was riding like that, so wishing them harm as a result seems rather unkind.

I break the speed limit regularly. I cross double white lines regularly. I do so in the knowledge that I do both with a degree of responsibility for my actions that many drivers and riders do not possess when they are riding perfectly legally. There are also places where there aren't double white lines where I won't overtake, and places where I will ride under the posted speed limit. It's a matter of taking in the information available to you and making a judgement based on that rather than blindly following rules which may not apply in the situation you find yourself in.

I'm not saying it's OK to bully or intimidate people, but I've found people feel intimidated sometimes for the most inconsequential of reasons. Especially when there's someone on a motorcycle coming past.

It's entirely possible that the rider observed by the OP WAS a ****. I didn't see him. That does not mean that ANYONE who overtakes in the Blackwall Tunnel deserves to come off.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by Stu

I could maybe see his point if that were the case, but the OP said Overtaking.

For the avoidance of doubt, "could see his point" meant that having not experienced the Blacwall tunnel myself I could imagine that filtering in it could be dangerous and not that I would want to see any harm come to anybody who did filter in it.

(I can't even imagine overtaking to be dangerous in it)

Sorry to those who like to pick but seeming as this post was aimed at people that commute through the blackwall tunnel, I thought they would just understand that when I said overtaking I also meant filtering/ undertaking.

The white lines are there for a reason 'Bear'. You may think you are very clever for that short journey though the tunnel. What you obviously dont realise is that there are many inexperienced drivers using that tunnel. Your stupid actions could cause a serious accident. If you were knocked off in there, you could very very very easily end up under at least 5 cars seeming as its tightly packed and everyone is doing a constant 30mph.

Think of others before yourself. People like you can only be described as selfish + its people like yourself that give us all a bad name.

I'm sorry, we seem to be having a misunderstanding. I filter. All the time. This does NOT mean that I ride inconsiderately, it just means that I filter. It should also not mean that another rider would wish me to come to harm for the simple fact that I am filtering.

Had you said "this guy I saw was a **** for riding like this" I'd probably agree with you, but you didn't. You have equated filtering with riding inconsiderately, which I don't believe to be true. On top of which you have wished harm upon me and many other riders I know for doing nothing which puts anyone, myself included, in any form of danger.

Just for clarity to all reading this thread: I am not trying to say I have a right to ride inconsiderately, I ride in a manner I consider to be fast yet polite, and that includes filtering when I can make safe progress faster than the prevailing traffic. Nor am I saying that I justify or sympathise with the rider the OP observed. I wasn't there, I didn't see it and can therefore not judge.

My only beef here is the fact that the OP has said "if you filter in the blackwall tunnel you deserve to come off".

[Speedy]

Er....before this gets out of hand.....

Reading between the lines, (get it? The double white ones? ), I don't think the OP wishes bikers that filter any harm at all, including ones that use the BW Tunnel.

All I think he is saying is, this biker in particular was riding like a muppet, putting his/her own life at risk and potentially others too.

Most of the bikers I know are considerate to other road users, (to an extent it's common sense), we, as bikers are more vulnerable to injury or death on the roads than say a car or lorry driver.

In this example/story the biker (arguably) caused a car driver to clip a curb....now crashes in tunnels, I would have thought ARE more problematic for the emergency services...access, heat/fire etc etc.

I wouldn't wish any biker any harm, in this instance he/she that was riding in this style, if said biker had come off as a result of their riding, could blame only themselves.......

If he/she got killed by following vehicles, the drivers of theose vehicles would have the horrible reality for the rest of their lives knowing that they, however not their fault, killed someone.

It's all about, time, place and common sense.

Originally Posted by Bear

This does NOT mean that I ride inconsiderately.

Im afraid it does. The blackwall tunnel has a strict speed limit of 30mph. So strict that people have been known to get speeding fines for 33mph.

The blackwall tunnel is notoriously narrow (northbound). For those of you that havent experienced the tunnel, the northbound tunnel is the oldest. It was built obviously to cross the thames. It was opened in 1897! So as you can imagine, this tunnel was built for horses to ferry people and goods across the river. Now you can imagine how tight it is... The reason the southbound isnt mentioned here is because that tunnel is the newest and was built with cars in mind.
Proof that the northbound was designed for horses is the way it has many sharp bends and the tunnel itself is windy. The reason for this is so that the horses couldnt see 'the light at the end of the tunnel' and bolt for it.

The blackwall tunnel also has TWO SOLID WHITE LINES painted all the way through.

So as you can see, your comment saying you do not ride 'inconsiderately' couldn't be more wrong.
Its a f*ck*ng dangerous tunnel and yourself as a qualified rider should respect this fact.