The law and drink driving

Aren't they trying to abolish the second station test now anyway? As the modern handhand equiptment is now very accurate. I heard this on one of these police shows a few months back.

[Bri w]

Originally Posted by specialone

Nope youve missed my point.

6 pints on a night out which ends at 12 midnight means you'll probably pulling around 12-14 units, they reckon recovery is approx 1 unit per hour so...
12 units= 12 hours, means you cant drive to approx 12 mid day the following day.
But say i drive to work at 8am, means i still have 4 units of alcohol in my system, two is roughly the legal limit so you're twice the legal limit @8am.

Get pulled 20 mins after downing 2 pints on the night =twice the legal limit still ( based on 1 pint is approx 2 units).

My argument is you WILL behave / perform differently in any test with your reactions compared to being twice the limit on the actual night you consume the alcohol, ( which in effect is what the drink drive limit is to stop us getting beyond an acceptable level)

I 100% know i would get a different result if i performed a reaction test under the two conditions as above, im sure other people feel perfectly ok the following morning but hand on heart with the same level of alcohol the night before would feel slightly affected and perform differently in the same test.

Thats why imo, a sobriety test in unison with a breath test is fairer than just the level off a blow test.

Finally, a reaction test would also be suitably affected by a persons tiredness, something that can affect us just as much as a couple of pints.

Not sure you're maths are right, i.e. you'llbe processing the units almost as soon as you start drinking them. If your first pint is at 8pm that will be through your system by 10pm, and your second pint 12pm. Different people have different metabolic rates... driving the following morning after a skin full is just plain naive.

The problem with a reaction test is it benefits those who have good reactions to start with, irrespective of their alcohol level.

The mg/litre of blood is a definitive limit. It may not be ideal but its the best of a bad job + there's no subjectivity about it. AND there's enough info in the public domain for people to know what they shouldn't drink.

Zero limit, not for me thanks. My wife is French and cooks with red wine a LOT. Eating my dinner has absolutely zero effect on me.

Originally Posted by beabert

Aren't they trying to abolish the second station test now anyway? As the modern handhand equiptment is now very accurate. I heard this on one of these police shows a few months back.

I think they are trying to abolish the blood test, because the breath machine at the station is now accurate enough. The hand held units are not good enough IMO, like anything else they can be faulty, need calibration, etc. I wouldn't trust them any more than I trust a hand held speed measurement device.

Cooking with red wine doesn't give you much (if any) alcohol. recalling my chemistry lessons at school (a bloody long time ago).... Ethanol has a boiling point of 78 deg C, so if you pour a bottle of red into a pan that's warm enough to cook anything, the alcohol is gone, boils off in no time. It's the other aromatic chemicals in the wine that get left behind that give the lovely flavour to the dish.

Puddings that you soak in alcohol and then don't burn off are more of a risk...

Have to admit I'm with Bluepete with this (no, I'm not a cop), if you fail the test you're not in a fit state to be driving. The route you took to be in that state doesn't matter. You're in that state, end of.....

[Dave20046]

Originally Posted by Bri w

Not sure you're maths are right, i.e. you'llbe processing the units almost as soon as you start drinking them. If your first pint is at 8pm that will be through your system by 10pm, and your second pint 12pm. Different people have different metabolic rates... driving the following morning after a skin full is just plain naive.

The problem with a reaction test is it benefits those who have good reactions to start with, irrespective of their alcohol level.
.

I was always told to start the clock after your last drink,whether this is just a precaution or not I don't know but it's banned me from driving all the following day before.

I get drunk on 3 pints


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[Littlepeahead]

I get drunk on half a shandy - I'm a cheap date.

But how many people also drive after taking medication? I know if I have 2 of the 30/500 Cocodamol I get given for headaches then I feel woozier than if I've had half a bottle of champagne and my reactions are not sharp. But although there is a warning on the box, how many people actually take notice of it? It;s not like thay can breathalise me for codeine. I'm sensible and don't drive if I've taken it - but a lot aren't.

And more of a worry is the amount of weed I see people smoke and then they drive home. Probably additionally distracted by the billboards for jaffa cakes on the way.

[Bluepete]

Originally Posted by Littlepeahead

I get drunk on half a shandy - I'm a cheap date.

But how many people also drive after taking medication? I know if I have 2 of the 30/500 Cocodamol I get given for headaches then I feel woozier than if I've had half a bottle of champagne and my reactions are not sharp. But although there is a warning on the box, how many people actually take notice of it? It;s not like thay can breathalise me for codeine. I'm sensible and don't drive if I've taken it - but a lot aren't.

And more of a worry is the amount of weed I see people smoke and then they drive home. Probably additionally distracted by the billboards for jaffa cakes on the way.

We can deal with that for you madam! Field Impairement Testing is common now. I do quite a few and lots of people fall foul of meds and illegal drugs. The outcome is the same. Banned from driving.

As far as I'm aware, no-one has been aquitted on the basis that they were OK to be over the limit 'cos they'd had a nap for a few hours.

Pete

PS,

LPH, fancy a date? I'm cheap too, so "How you dooin'?"

[punyXpress]

Originally Posted by Littlepeahead

And more of a worry is the amount of weed I see people smoke and then they drive home. Probably additionally distracted by the billboards for jaffa cakes on the way.

That'll be that nice Mr Seggons! He'll put billboards anywhere.

[Red Herring]

Originally Posted by specialone

Nope youve missed my point.

6 pints on a night out which ends at 12 midnight means you'll probably pulling around 12-14 units, they reckon recovery is approx 1 unit per hour so...
12 units= 12 hours, means you cant drive to approx 12 mid day the following day.
But say i drive to work at 8am, means i still have 4 units of alcohol in my system, two is roughly the legal limit so you're twice the legal limit @8am.

Get pulled 20 mins after downing 2 pints on the night =twice the legal limit still ( based on 1 pint is approx 2 units).

My argument is you WILL behave / perform differently in any test with your reactions compared to being twice the limit on the actual night you consume the alcohol, ( which in effect is what the drink drive limit is to stop us getting beyond an acceptable level)

I 100% know i would get a different result if i performed a reaction test under the two conditions as above, im sure other people feel perfectly ok the following morning but hand on heart with the same level of alcohol the night before would feel slightly affected and perform differently in the same test.

Thats why imo, a sobriety test in unison with a breath test is fairer than just the level off a blow test.

Finally, a reaction test would also be suitably affected by a persons tiredness, something that can affect us just as much as a couple of pints.

In all my years of coppering, and the literally 100s of people I must have nicked for drink driving, I've yet to find one that thought they were unfit to drive, even the ones I've pulled out of their wreckage and tested several times over the limit.

In my view the current system works just fine. We have a reasonable limit and good technology in order to enforce it. Most importantly we have the support of the public and as has already been said public acceptance of drink driving is now virtually a thing of the past.

My only concern now is due to our force restructuring custody areas are getting further apart and queues for getting in are getting longer. This means you can nick someone who is marginally over the limit yet by the time you've booked them in they go under at the station. I know from speaking with colleagues from other forces that they have similar issues. There is talk of us having new devices that can provide an evidential reading on the street, however these will have little impact on the above scenario as under current legislation any breath reading close to the limit can be replaced by a blood/urine specimen so we'll be back to bringing them in to wait in the queue anyhow.