101mph in a 60.

[JamesMio]

Originally Posted by Warthog

I think the main problem here was that they said he was doing 101 which is licence losing territory, but the OP thinks he wasn't going that fast (albeit speeding) and doesn't want to lose his license.

Pretty much correct, I was speeding - almost no question of it. It was downhill, clear and empty road and I was on the home stretch of a 100 mile ride. For whatever reason I took my eye off the speedo and rode as it felt safe to do so, in this case at a speed over & above the 60 limit.

As I'd said, by the time I saw the unmarked car lurking in the bushes I'd already hit the brakes as there's a bend coming up with a junction on it (I know the road very well, having commuted on it over the years).

I knew where the next possible hazard could come from, I was watching the road for gravelly surfaces, as there are a lot of those crappy roadworks being done round here just now, and as such believe I would have spotted any diesel etc had it been there.

Aside from Deer (there are none on this stretch of road), children (no houses or even pavements near this stretch) or angry pheasants (Ok, that really would be unlucky) darting out from the side of the road, there was no chance that I was going to hit anything, hence why the 'Dangerous' and 'Careless' parts are, in my opinion, somewhat harsh.

That said, this is all speculative - I've not received anything through the post yet, and as such can't really comment on what charges I'm looking at yet.

I've no intention (or leg to stand on) of fighting the speed, my word, based purely on gut feeling, against the word of two Police officers AND a speed gun, is not going to stand up in court, and I'm not going to embarrass myself by trying.

I was speeding, we've been guilty of it at some point - even accidentally, but in this case I got caught doing it. It sucks (trust me, it really does - having this hanging over me for the next X months is horrible), but all I feel I can do is pretty much go to court, apologise humbly for allowing my speed to reach what it did, recognise the potential outcome of something going wrong, puncture/hitting a non-existent other road user etc, drop my pants and take what comes.

Lets just say that I agree with what has been said on many counts but the system is in place for both parties and unless both parties conform to it 100% it leaves room for false or defective information being submitted to the CPS and as in theory we are innocent till proved guilty any point of law is relevant to the prosecution/defence
Admitting to speeding knowing full well you were doing the alleged speed is obviously going to result in a guilty verdict,whereas admitting to speeding but not the alleged speed gives grounds for a Newton plea,which was the case in my own offense and it made a lot of difference to the outcome of the case

I have to agree with the guys saying not to try and wriggle out of this one. I was accused of doing 70mph in a 50 zone and was convinced I hadn't been doing that speed. It was on a road that I travel almost every day, and I know the police regularly hide behind a bush on the side of a sliproad joining this particular 50mph stretch. As I passed the sliproad I knew I was doing over the speed limit and checked my speedo while braking lightly and it was at 60mph. I looked back in my mirror and saw the sidelights of a parked car, I knew this was the police and I broke even sharper to bring my speed down to the limit. They pulled me over a couple of miles down the road, sat me in their car and asked me if I knew why I had been pulled over, to which I replied I had no idea (so as not to incriminate myself). They told me they had caught me at a speed of just over 70 in a 50 zone and showed me the device (radar if I remember correctly) with the speed on it.

Remember, that I had checked my speed as I was coming through that section of road and although I knew I had been over the speed limit (on my speedo at least) after very light braking and an almost instant glance at the speedo it was showing 60. In reality, 60 on an average car speedo is what, 54mph? At most I reckon I was actually doing 60 when emerging into their line of sight - yes over the speed limit but not by the 20mph they claimed.

Anyways, I decided that because of this discrepancy I would try and seek free legal advice and take it court if the officers were prepared to take it that far. When I notified the police that I was not prepared to pay the £60 fine and take the 3 points I was sent evidence in the form of statements that both officers had written based on their notes. The main thing of interest was the speed that they had caught me at and the distance that I was from the device when this reading was taken. I went on google maps and began working out distances (google maps has a very good tool which can tell you how far a line that you draw actually is in feet or metres). When I saw the police officers in my rear view mirror they were quite far up the sliproad, however the distance that they said they had caught me at wasn't actually particularly far away - especially when you consider how many feet per second a car is moving while doing 70mph. Also, the bushes down the side of the sliproad meant that the officers have no line of sight until cars are well past where the slip road begins to join the carriageway.

Basically, if you take into account the poor line of sight because of the bushes and the speed that they claimed to have caught me doing would have meant that the officers would have had to have been well in advance of the bushes to have caught me within the claimed distance. This would have meant that I would have been able to see them as I was going past instead of only being able to see them in my rear view mirror further down the road.

In court we got the officers to point out on a printed out birds eye view of the road where they were positioned at the time when they allegedly took the reading. They said they were around halfway up the sliproad, about in he last third of the bushes. This would mean that they would have had literally a split second to see my car, line it up and pull the trigger to catch me within the distance they claimed - near enough impossible! All this was explained to the magistrates clearly and consicely. The result?

£250 fine and 4 points.

Thanks for listening you old g!ts. I think to a certain extent the magistrates had already made up their minds that I was guilty, I think it would have taken something biblical for them to find me not guilty. To this day I still cant see how I could have possibly been doing 70mph, a) because I never do 70 through there and b) because of the fact that I checked my speedo. I am not convinced that the 70mph speed they showed me was actually a reading from my vehicle - perhaps one they had taken previously? Dishonest if that was the case, but although I by no means hate the police, I certainly wouldn't trust all of them as far as I could throw them. I appreciate the police have a very difficult job, and many of them are great guys no doubt. In fact most of the guys who just taught me to ride a bike for my DAS were policemen or have left the force in the past few years. They all were top guys.

Anyway, the point to this rant is that I was probably over speed limit just as you were - only not by the amount that the police had claimed I was. You can protest and contest it all you like, but they will likely find you guilty regardless. My advice is wait for the paperwork to come through, see how severe the charge is. Seek legal advice to see what the likely outcome of the charge will be and providing you are unlikely to lose your licence just admit to it as early as possible and as the guys say "take it on the chin"

If Im in a 40 zone, passing a car doing 40, I'm doing 60 and the camera flashes as I'm dead-level with the car, How do they know who's the speeder? I mean the speeder could be overtaking on the inside.


Steve

[yorkie_chris]

Always possible to count the lines on the road.

Originally Posted by startrek.steve

If Im in a 40 zone, passing a car doing 40, I'm doing 60 and the camera flashes as I'm dead-level with the car, How do they know who's the speeder? I mean the speeder could be overtaking on the inside.

I think multi-lane cameras mark which lane has triggered the money-making opportunity.

And on the subject of the lines on the road; it appears that there is no fixed separation for the lines, and increasingly cameras do not have them. Try proving the camera wrong then!

Originally Posted by startrek.steve

If Im in a 40 zone, passing a car doing 40, I'm doing 60 and the camera flashes as I'm dead-level with the car, How do they know who's the speeder? I mean the speeder could be overtaking on the inside.

That's why cameras take two pictures at a set time interval apart. They then use the lines in the road to measure the distance travelled whilst the two pictures are taken. Distance/time=average speed over that time interval.

Much easier to understand than lasers

Originally Posted by Jabba

That's why cameras take two pictures at a set time interval apart.

A time interval that may or may not be set...

Guys, just to throw a gallon of fat on the fire it is worth noting that technically a police officer can 'guess' your speed and have that accepted by a court without technical devices (radars/lasers etc..) to hand. Providing that they demonstrate to the magistrate that they have a fairly accurate knowledge of speeds etc etc, it is possible to push a case without all the fan-dangle weapons they got.

I know this isn't the exact topic of conversation here but don't think your completely safe if there isn't cars in trees/bushes etc etc.. just whizzing past an industrious copper on the street with a keen eye could get you wrapped too! Be careful !

[Red Herring]

Close Welsh Wizard, but not quite right. It actually takes two coppers on the side of the road to guess your speed.
The rules for speed enforcement are that a copper must say that in their opinion the offender was speeding, and then they must collaborate that in some way. That is usually done with a speed device like radar/laser/calibrated speedo, but technically the collaboration could be provided by another officers opinion. It has been done but only in exceptional circumstances.