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Old 13-11-08, 09:04 PM   #121
Messie
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Default Re: i cried last night

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I've just seen this on the Times Online website...



I'm sorry. What? Social workers didn't want to take the baby away because it was a violation of the mother's human rights?

I think someone needs to explain that to me, because it seems to of come from fantasay!

please, please remember that there is often a very big difference between what the papers say and the truth. Papers are only interested in telling a 'story' that sells papers
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Old 13-11-08, 09:12 PM   #122
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please, please remember that there is often a very big difference between what the papers say and the truth. Papers are only interested in telling a 'story' that sells papers
That's exactly why I re-wrote my initial post before hitting Submit.
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Old 13-11-08, 09:55 PM   #123
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I havent read the whole thread, skimmed through some of the posts.

My opinion: Prison too good for these types, unless placed into a wing which houses the most vile evil spirits which walk the planet and are left to "get on with it"

The court order made to protect the names of those responsible: Why should such beasts be given anonimity? The Bulger kids werent given that and their crime was similarly evil.

And people wonder if theres such thing as God....
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Old 13-11-08, 10:02 PM   #124
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please, please remember that there is often a very big difference between what the papers say and the truth. Papers are only interested in telling a 'story' that sells papers
too true, its unfortunate that papers dont post the full apology for several days to people on the front page when they do get it wrong.

in this case I would say wait for the real verdit/report to come out before pointing fingers.
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Old 13-11-08, 10:08 PM   #125
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Default Re: i cried last night

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Of course they are, assuming they're accurate. And we know about them now. We have absolutely no idea whether they should have or could have been picked up earlier. A lot of them happened towards the end, for one thing.

A lot of people act amazed that the doctor missed the broken spine, but why do they believe that would be obvious? Likewise broken ribs, there would be temporary bruising but it's not something obvious, and since a baby can't tell you symptoms it's easy to see how it could be missed. Doctors don't examine babies with a view to finding broken spines unless they know there's been a trauma. You simply don't see stuff like this unless you specifically look for it. Should all babies be frequently x-rayed just on the off-chance? It seems like that's what it'd take.
Northy, (and all this is of course recording to reports etc etc) the toddlers injuries would have left him paralysed below the waist. Do you seriously believe doctors are unable to tell a paralysed child from one that can walk without x-rays? If you have ever had a broken bone you know it cannot even be brushed with a finger let alone examined thoroughly. I appreciate where you are coming from but to believe there was no negligence here is giving the doctor a lot of credit.
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Old 13-11-08, 10:32 PM   #126
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Default Re: i cried last night

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If you have ever had a broken bone you know it cannot even be brushed with a finger let alone examined thoroughly.
I walked into A&E on a broken hip

The doctor in question maintains that the baby sat unsupported, showed no signs of discomfort, and moved his feet- which may or may not be true, but in fact we don't know if his spine was broken at the time of the exam. The prosecution says it "probably" was.
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Old 13-11-08, 11:16 PM   #127
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Default Re: i cried last night

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I walked into A&E on a broken hip

The doctor in question maintains that the baby sat unsupported, showed no signs of discomfort, and moved his feet- which may or may not be true, but in fact we don't know if his spine was broken at the time of the exam. The prosecution says it "probably" was.
I bet it hurt though!. Actually I walked on a broken leg (2 breaks, 5 fractures, 2 pulled ligaments) but that was adrenalin and a fresh break, didn't feel so good the following day! As soon as someone touched it though, now that did hurt!

I do get what you are saying Northy, but what I don't want to see is people getting off on technicalities when they could have and should have under reasonable behaviour of a qualified doctor, to have spotted the injuries, if indeed they were there. I think it is easy to excuse negligence as we can emphasis that if that was us could we have missed it, but abused children do give signs that specialist should recognise.

The only 'facts' are that there is a dead baby that was absued over a long period of time and was in sight of care services for a number of months. There must be some calpability.
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Old 14-11-08, 12:25 AM   #128
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Default Re: i cried last night

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what I don't want to see is people getting off on technicalities when they could have and should have under reasonable behaviour of a qualified doctor, to have spotted the injuries, if indeed they were there.
It's the last line that's the clincher though isn't it.

TBH I don't really want to stick up for the doctor, I'm doing a bit of my own jumping to conclusions but that part really seems suss, she's not quite changed her story, just brought in extra bits that were left out previously that turn out to be pretty important, ie, never mentioned the baby moving his feet til after the first interview. It smells a bit bad... She also says she wasn't advised it was a potential abuse case.
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Old 14-11-08, 12:43 AM   #129
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Default Re: i cried last night

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Dreadful mistakes have been made - and I hope, as I'm sure everyone reading this story hopes, that the reasons for it will be fully investigated and understood so that it cannot happen again.
Well you can hope, I for one don't think an inquiry will make a blind bit of difference. This is Harringay, again! Where 'social services' allowed a child in similar circumstances be tortured to death by her 'carers'. There was an inquiry, the results presented in 2003. She was called Victoria Climbie - I humbly submit that Harringay have learned nothing from that and another inquiry will not help children in the future in this benighted borough.

Unfortunately I have no idea what will. Depressing, isn't it?
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Old 16-11-08, 08:19 PM   #130
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Well you can hope, I for one don't think an inquiry will make a blind bit of difference. This is Harringay, again! Where 'social services' allowed a child in similar circumstances be tortured to death by her 'carers'. There was an inquiry, the results presented in 2003. She was called Victoria Climbie - I humbly submit that Harringay have learned nothing from that and another inquiry will not help children in the future in this benighted borough.

Unfortunately I have no idea what will. Depressing, isn't it?
Sad but very true
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