Vegetarians .. Vegans and the like …

Originally Posted by RhythmJunkie

I just had a vision of you wrestling a cow to the ground with a 10" Bowie and a box of fire lighters!

[yorkie_chris]

Rofl!

Originally Posted by RhythmJunkie

After I embarrassed myself the other day by completely forgetting about the importance of aerodynamics on maximum velocities through air I will hold back on arguing with anyone for a while. I don't usually make big mistakes like that but hey its been a hectic few months where bankruptcy was waving its sharpened sythe at us.
Hopefully all that is behind us but before I swing wildly off topic (oops too late) try this Chris, its only the tip of the iceberg (pardon the pun), but after reading mountains of evidence from both sides of the scientific community I am in no way convinced about the whole climate change scenario as its being thrust upon the general populace!
The liars sicken me and the publics gullibilty saddens me....what to do...

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle1363818.ece

Just one sensible restrained voice in a world full of scare mongering madmen who are driven only by political desire.

Interesting article, slightly degraded in weight as the author has a vested interest in his book sales so I wouldn't go quite as far as to say it's a balanced view. I suppose I go along with a lot of the climate change stuff because the outcome of policies aimed at tackling climate change should be the kind of stuff we should be doing anyway, regardless of climate change - energy efficiency, recycling etc. We'll run out of oil (well, for modern practical purposes) pretty soon (maybe not our life time though) so drives toward cleaner renewable energy is a winner regardless of whether it has any effect on the climate.

Back on the veggies - study after study shows veggies live longer, evidenced now by cheaper life insurance policies for veggies. Question: Is this longer life a result of a veggie diet, or is it a result of veggies simply being more thoughtful about what they eat? Veggies think more about their food, is it this that gives them the longer life or is it the diet?

If it's down to ethics, you'd best sell your bike and stop crossing the road. There's supposed to be some very small degree of animal extract in tarmac!

(I used to be a vegetarian so I'm allowed to take the **** )

Veggies think more about their food, is it this that gives them the longer life or is it the diet?

A bit of both really. Most veggies I talk to are indeed wised up on food poisons.
If you stick a finger up to the meat & dairy industry then your diet becomes almost devoid of dangerous fats and excess calories. If you avoid the pies and savoury pastries then your salt intake is drastically reduced.
You don't get 'any' growth hormones or antibiotics in veg or fruit.
They get you one way or another, genetically modified veg & fruit + pesticides. Again avoidable by not buying everything from a supermarket!
Low fat, salt & body weight = longer life, not just longer but healthier!
Then all you need to avoid is the flouride, mercury, aluminum, barium, MSG etc.,etc.

After being veggie for about 5 years just the smell of raw meat makes us feel sick, now thats what I call a natural reaction because the smell of raw veg & fruit never have!

It wouldn't be so bad if the industry didn't poison their products to make more money. They use so many that the udders get canker sores which weep puss into the milk which dissolves and is not filtered out. Enjoy that cup of tea now won't you?

Oh there are lots of reasons for turning your back on the meat & dairy industry but you don't have to turn your back on meat. Just go to a trusted source for your produce like a local organic farmer!

There are so many lies told us. The latest foot & mouth (outbreak?) is more alarmist nonesciense(sic)! The illness is a bit like you getting the flu. The animal gets ill, gets over it and carries on. A few may end up lame if not looked after properly while ill, the meat is not affected. They kill & burn hundreds of thousands of animals for what? A public alarming excercise! The farmers only fear it because they know the gov'bods will come & butcher all their livestock!

This is how I see things.
You own a lot of land, you are rich, you decide you want more but its all taken. You release F&M to a few local farms, put the farmers out of business and buy up their land which they willingly do because they are bankrupted!
Is there any wonder they s**t themselves when there's an outbreak?

Make sense?

Why else would the government not vaccinate? Because 'they' would lose control over the land!

This debate has rumbled on for too long.....Meat=munch

Meat = big big man titties!

[northwind]

Originally Posted by RhythmJunkie

There are so many lies told us. The latest foot & mouth (outbreak?) is more alarmist nonesciense(sic)! The illness is a bit like you getting the flu. The animal gets ill, gets over it and carries on. A few may end up lame if not looked after properly while ill,

This isn't really the case... Foot and mouth can cause myocarditis and death (mainly in the young), and chronic weight loss. It can also cause mastitis and total loss of milk production, which is a bit of a bigger deal for cows with calves, though obviously bad news for dairy herds. The lesions are wide open to secondary infections, and no doubt not much fun for the cow either... As for "if not properly looked affter when ill" that's a bit of a cheek frankly, in a large herd with a severe outbreak it's never going to be practical to constantly treat each animal for the two weeks it can take to recover, and permanent damage is a possible outcome regardless of care.

So why not vaccinate? Why slaughter and throw away?
The same argument could be thrown at many illnesses. You only die from HIV due to secondary illnesses not the disease itself.

The "if not looked after properly" is not cheek NW , its based on observation. I've lived in Derbyshire my whole life and have seen it go from a beef & dairy area to predominantly sheep, the abuse of animals here is legendary....it makes me sick! Some farmers really do treat their animals as if they are not even living things, just toys for their amusement!

In the very young and infirm the influenza virus 'can' cause myocarditis and even death in humans but luckily its only pensioners who succumb to that one!

Mastitis....hmmmm....that would be the same mastitis which is often caused by over use of antibiotics, growth hormones and lack of hygeine wouldn't it....albeit a different cause.....maybe???

[northwind]

Originally Posted by RhythmJunkie

The "if not looked after properly" is not cheek NW , its based on observation. I've lived in Derbyshire my whole life and have seen it go from a beef & dairy area to predominantly sheep, the abuse of animals here is legendary....it makes me sick! Some farmers really do treat their animals as if they are not even living things, just toys for their amusement!

In the very young and infirm the influenza virus 'can' cause myocarditis and even death in humans but luckily its only pensioners who succumb to that one!

Yeah, but "Some farmers abuse animals" is a big jump to "It's possible to treat severe sores several times a day for a large herd of animals, every day for 2 weeks". Small farms just don't have the manpower.

As for "Can", death from foot and mouth is a very common result in young cattle. And not just because we shoot them in the head and chuck them on a fire

I don't know the arguments for or against vaccination, it used to be unreliable and have a risk of actually causing the disease, and there's a number of different strains to vaccinate against, but past that I haven't a clue.

I think you're drawing a bit of a wrong assumption here though, I'm not disagreeing with what you're saying about the treatment of beef and dairy herds at all, just picking up specifics on F&M.