The Org EU referendum

[ChrisCurvyS]

Without having a team of expert, independent economists at your disposal, it's very hard to get a grasp on the economic pros and cons of being in the EU as it's such a vast issue for the average person to comprehend.

However, simplyfying the issue by looking at it just as bikers, everything the EU does seems to be bad for us. From emissions legislation that makes bikes run bad until you tune them, to the ever more complicated and difficult licence tests which simply seem designed to gradually kill off motorcycling, silly 'green' biofuel, anti-tamper - it doesn't look good does it?

And none of it appears to bring any benefit to anyone, and a lot of the time no-one at all has called for it (eg anti-tamper) - it's just legislation for legislation's sake and it's highly anti-democratic.

However, at the same time there's part of me that thinks we can't get too cocky as a nation and burn our bridges as we don't have much to offer the world right now, so we need to think very carefully about it and do our homework.

[yorkie_chris]

We (my company) does a hell of a lot of turbocharger work, some of which ends up in European vehicles. We (as in the UK subcontractors who do it) tend to be very good at it, and I'm not sure how much financial pressure leaving the EU would put on their customers to have it done within the EU instead.

[Paul the 6th]

The EU enables us to trade with other european countries without massive import and export taxes, everything we buy from europe would go up in price massively, and if our economy isn't fecked enough already, our sales to europe would decrease as we become an even more expensive country to buy from after import taxes they have to pay at their end.

[timwilky]

Working for a multinational headquatered in France I have seen UK work and job disappear into Europe and as a result probably 30,000 UK jobs go from my organisation in the past 20 years.

We no longer have the capability to manufacture what we used to. But ironically as the company has grown we are investing and creating jobs in India, China. Manufacturing is considered too expensive within Europe.

Those that say leaving the EU will cost jobs are looking at figures as to the businesses that sell into Europe. Post divorce, those business will still be here, their customer base will still be in Europe. Just the terms and conditions of trade will be different. Improved UK competitiveness should offset any EU obstruction to trade.

[Steve_God]

Leave completely? No.
Renegotiate terms to get a better deal? Yes.

[timwilky]

Originally Posted by Steve_God

Leave completely? No.
Renegotiate terms to get a better deal? Yes.

So when the French and Germans say "Non. You play by our rules". The Spanish, Italians etc say we want more. Renegotiation only works if it is seen as mutually beneficial. The only thing beneficial to Europe from our continued membership is increased contributions from the UK. We have already seen we are unable to reduce the bureaucrats insatiable appetite for unnecessary expenditure and regulation.

The UK was conned at the time of our parents referendum. They were told they were entering into a "Common Market" a free trade organisation. Not a federal states of Europe. Nobody expected back then that free trade would dictate what a motorcycle licence test should consist of etc.

[Red Herring]

This is a classic case that illustrates the weakness of any democracy.

The vast majority, myself included, don't know nearly enough about world and European economics to be able to make the best decision for the future of this country around it's membership of the EU. All we know as the general public is whatever the politicians and/or the press choose to tell us to support their own particular point of view, or to show the weakness in others. It is very rare for them to have the long term interests of this country as the driving force behind their decisions, they are far more likely to take the short term view and take the route that will be popular and win them the next vote.

I'm not saying I don't care about this issue, I'm just saying that the government putting this issue to the public is akin to the children in a primary school being asked to write the school syllabus.

There are some very knowledgeable and well informed economists out there somewhere who have made a living out of calling these shots, if I was charged with making this decision I'd be asking them, not the bloke down the pub.

[Biker Biggles]

FWIW I think its too late to pull out.I accept all the points about the EU being undemocratic and taking us in a direction we were not asked about back in 1975,but fourty years later we are part of it whether we like it or not.You cant uninvent the last fourty years of history so we need to reform it from within,or at least try to.We could start by insisting on a viable two stage Europe for those who want a United States of Europe and those who want a trading block only.Britain could be a pillar of the latter while France and Germany squabble about who dominates the former.Just a thought.

[yorkie_chris]

Originally Posted by Biker Biggles

We could start by insisting on a viable two stage Europe for those who want a United States of Europe and those who want a trading block only.Britain could be a pillar of the latter while France and Germany squabble about who dominates the former.Just a thought.

That would seem to be the best way.

I worked in Europe before the EEC or EU but simple as I am I would not be paying into something that I am not getting a good return from, which seems to be the case with the current EU-UK arrangement.
No EU countries co-exist quite well trade wise as we did in the past so scare mongering on this basis does not wash with me.
We would regain control of immigration and not be dictated to by EU Law.
The EU has ruined several of our industries, fishing and haulage are two prime examples.
Yes very knowledgeable people are calling the shots and earning well out of it-------but at who's expense.

I am sorry but as an individual I had over £100K wiped off my company by EU legislation so I am biased