Tyer warmers - are they 'really' essential?

Steve was sat in the holding area for around 5 mins due to a previous race spillage that needed clearing. It was cold and windy.

The two flying laps were measured after sitting in the pitlane for a good 5 mins also waiting to go out. Steve wanted to test his new tyre temp measuring tool and also see how quickly the tyres did warm up and hold temp.

Tyres like race compound ones are designed to work with warmers. By heating them you active the compound. They actually still hold alot more temp than you think even on a cold day sat after you have taken the warmers off.

[flymo]

Right, fresh from todays racing at Anglesey I had a typical race meeting experience.

We arrived at the holding area right on time only to find that the sidecars had an extended practice and we would be hanging around. So, literally 10 minutes later in high wind and 6 deg C temperature it was bloody freezing, both me the bike and I'm pretty sure my tyres also.

I looked around me and there were at least half a dozen blokes sat there shaking there heads and touching the tyres. One guy even complained to a marshall that we needed more than a single warmup lap. So there's me, snug in the feeling that I dont own any warmers and so didnt waste the past hour sucking fuel out of my generator for no reason.

Yep, so in this instance, there would have been pretty much ZERO benefit using tyre warmers, so your original post holds true and I 100% agree, sometimes it seems an utter waste - worse than that - very frustrating if you have used warmers, not only did you waste all that genny fuel, but 'cycled' your tyres one extra time too!!

However, I can assure you that if you aren't held up in the holding area and you do a 'last minute' dash/warmer ripoff i.e. you have good heat in your tyres, it makes a massive difference in the opening laps. I don't know how many laps there are with your club, but in a BEMSEE 5-7 lap dash, you can't waste the first couple of laps getting your tyres up to temp

In summery, in the long run, I think you will lose out if you don?t have warmers, but it indeed seems pointless at other times!!

[flymo]

Originally Posted by Blue_SV650S

Yep, so in this instance, there would have been pretty much ZERO benefit using tyre warmers, so your original post holds true and I 100% agree, sometimes it seems an utter waste - worse than that - very frustrating if you have used warmers, not only did you waste all that genny fuel, but 'cycled' your tyres one extra time too!!

However, I can assure you that if you aren't held up in the holding area and you do a 'last minute' dash/warmer ripoff i.e. you have good heat in your tyres, it makes a massive difference in the opening laps. I don't know how many laps there are with your club, but in a BEMSEE 5-7 lap dash, you can't waste the first couple of laps getting your tyres up to temp

In summery, in the long run, I think you will lose out if you don?t have warmers, but it indeed seems pointless at other times!!

Yeah, I'm only smug because I didnt use them, but I do intend to. Next round at Oulton is all tarmac paddock and so might well invest in a set as its much easier to engineer an advantage at a track like that.

[flymo]

Right, ran my first race with warmers at Oulton last weekend. I was interested to experience just how much difference there would be.

Honestly, after a pretty typical but relatively short wait before being let onto the track there was not a massive difference but it was certainly a big improvement in grip, and likely a big reduction in risk of sliding off. I think the advantage for me was purely the pace on the first lap as expected really. Instead of struggling to warm the tyres on lap 1 etc I was just able to nail it into turn 1 and get my head down. That gained me about 10 places in 1 corner!

So, probably worth the money I reckon especially as they cost less than a set of tyres. I bought a set of Diamond warmers, pretty impressed with the quality and they appear to have a good reputation and after sales service.

A few years ago I had this discussion with a dunlop technician. road tyres warm up uniformly i.e rolling down the centre of tyre will warm full carcass, race tyres do not. therefore 4left handers will put heat in that part of tyre...right hander ...minimal heat....slide. it also activates the compund to work at correct temp....ever heard of cold tear??? wets should be warmed too, just not over heated as the blocks then "move" & close up. If you are track daying on "road" compounds then the arguement against use would stand as the tyres heat as mentioned before.
not trying to be clever, cos it always baffled me too

Originally Posted by flyinwalrus

A few years ago I had this discussion with a dunlop technician. road tyres warm up uniformly i.e rolling down the centre of tyre will warm full carcass, race tyres do not. therefore 4left handers will put heat in that part of tyre...right hander ...minimal heat....slide. it also activates the compund to work at correct temp....ever heard of cold tear??? wets should be warmed too, just not over heated as the blocks then "move" & close up. If you are track daying on "road" compounds then the arguement against use would stand as the tyres heat as mentioned before.
not trying to be clever, cos it always baffled me too

Im not trying to be clever either but I spend my time in a lot of tyre factories and see the manufacturing processes. Warming tyres is essential to get optimum performance, it gels all the chemicals and compounds allowing them to slide against each other or to be mixed. I just dont believe that 7 - 10 minutes sat on a grid is enough for the tyres to cool down excessively, apart from that you are all in the same boat, no one has the advantage.

I nicked a list of some of the chemicals used.

an extensive range of chemicals including xylene, benzene, petroleum naphtha, chlorinated solvents (for example 1,1,1- trichloroethane), polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, anthracene, phenanthrene,benzo[a]pyrene, phenols, amines, oil, acids and alkalis (eg sodium hydroxide), polychlorinated biphenyls, halogenated cyanoalkanes, processing aids, and plasticisers. Tyre processing also involves several heavy metals including zinc, cadmium, lead, chromium and copper.

All this cocktail will generate its own heat while sat on a grid in my opinion but as the whole rim and wheel is heated the heat loss inside the tyre where it matters will be minimal. The outside of the tyre may cool but the compounds within are still warm.

It is my opinion only though

[yorkie_chris]

Originally Posted by wheelnut

All this cocktail will generate its own heat while sat on a grid in my opinion

How?

[flymo]

Originally Posted by wheelnut

Im not trying to be clever either but I spend my time in a lot of tyre factories and see the manufacturing processes. Warming tyres is essential to get optimum performance, it gels all the chemicals and compounds allowing them to slide against each other or to be mixed. I just dont believe that 7 - 10 minutes sat on a grid is enough for the tyres to cool down excessively, apart from that you are all in the same boat, no one has the advantage.

I nicked a list of some of the chemicals used.



All this cocktail will generate its own heat while sat on a grid in my opinion but as the whole rim and wheel is heated the heat loss inside the tyre where it matters will be minimal. The outside of the tyre may cool but the compounds within are still warm.

It is my opinion only though

I'm a little puzzled by some of this but then I'm no chemistry expert either. I can beleive that a particular compound can 'activate' in the sense that it has particular movement characteristics, levels of flexibility and the capability to grip a tarmac surface within a certain temperature range.

How then can it not matter that the outer surface of the tyre cools down, thats the section of tyre that actually meets the tarmac so surely that must be at the correct temperature to be any benefit.

7 to 10 minutes sat around waiting is most definately enough to cool tyres, especially with a cold wind. The proof is in the pudding, with a tyre pyrometer you can see it after 5 mins, the tyres are less than half the temperature they were fresh out of the warmers, another few mins and I'ld expect them to be cool.

[yorkie_chris]

Depends on the conductivity of the rubber as to whether the inside is still warmer. It will be definately, but enough to make a noticeable difference in the warm up time when on track?