Baffle Warning

Just found this,:

http://www.ukwheels.com/exhausts_dft.asp

Looks like 83db is the limit....

Yes but a straight through can will be above that with baffle(s) removed!

[northwind]

Pretty meaningless that, since it's got no measurement technique- there are new, unmodified bikes that are louder than that at the pipe exit.

The UK doesn't have universal type approval so it's NOT the case that fitting a non-approved part makes your car illegal, except where there are specific requirements (ie headlights, tyres, etc).

As for insurance, for an accident damage claim a loud exhaust cannot invalidate your insurance, unless it's directly relevant to the claim- which means either a) the other driver claims to have been startled by the noise, and crashed as a result, or b) you lied to the insurer about the exhaust. If you crash solo, and you've declared the exhaust, it's completely irrelevant whether it's legal or not. The insurers might use it to try and convince you they don't need to pay out, but this has been well tested in court.

[Biker Biggles]

Correct.The insurer can only refuse to pay if the issue that was "wrong "with your vehicle was in some way related to the accident.
Thats why the first thing an assessor checks is the tyres.They are always relevant in a moving accident.

Originally Posted by northwind

As for insurance, for an accident damage claim a loud exhaust cannot invalidate your insurance, unless it's directly relevant to the claim

Unfortunately for the past 5 years that hasn't been true, your insurance quote is taken on the basis your bike is totally OEM unless you state any add on or mod! Failure to inform your insuarnce company to any modification made to your vehicle is a breach of the verbal contract.

At the time of my first major accident I had the GSXR front end freshly fitted to the 750, at this time I had not disclosed it to the insurance company. This accident involved me being stationary and being hit and trapped under a car which struck me from the right hand side. I was stationary and yet my modified brakes were a legal hassle, not OEM and not disclosed! The opinion of 'if it isn't a contributing factor to accident you are ok' is nolonger applicable, this was decided many years back after claimants where running up the costs of repairs because they were replacing aftermarket parts that were more expensive than OEM.

The leading insurers Norwich Union, Bennetts, etc will validate my comments. I am still going through a claim now for my second major accident, and I have been through all this with my solicitors and insurance company and this time there are no undisclosed mods on the 750.

[Gazza77]

Originally Posted by northwind

As for insurance, for an accident damage claim a loud exhaust cannot invalidate your insurance, unless it's directly relevant to the claim- which means either a) the other driver claims to have been startled by the noise, and crashed as a result, or b) you lied to the insurer about the exhaust. If you crash solo, and you've declared the exhaust, it's completely irrelevant whether it's legal or not. The insurers might use it to try and convince you they don't need to pay out, but this has been well tested in court.

Originally Posted by Dangerous Dave

Unfortunately for the past 5 years that hasn't been true, your insurance quote is taken on the basis your bike is totally OEM unless you state any add on or mod! Failure to inform your insuarnce company to any modification made to your vehicle is a breach of the verbal contract.

At the time of my first major accident I had the GSXR front end freshly fitted to the 750, at this time I had not disclosed it to the insurance company. This accident involved me being stationary and being hit and trapped under a car which struck me from the right hand side. I was stationary and yet my modified brakes were a legal hassle, not OEM and not disclosed! The opinion of 'if it isn't a contributing factor to accident you are ok' is nolonger applicable, this was decided many years back after claimants where running up the costs of repairs because they were replacing aftermarket parts that were more expensive than OEM.

The leading insurers Norwich Union, Bennetts, etc will validate my comments. I am still going through a claim now for my second major accident, and I have been through all this with my solicitors and insurance company and this time there are no undisclosed mods on the 750.

I think that was what Northwind was actually saying, as long as the mod is declared, it's legality is not a relevent factor in a claim.

[Red Herring]

Most insurance companies will still honor the third party element of an insurance policy in the event that the machine is found to have undeclared modifications. This means your policy still meets the legal requirements so you won't get prosecuted. However they most certainly will use it to negotiate out of paying you anything for your "comprehensive" element of your policy. If you read the small print on some policies they have also extended this to include something like "The vehicle must be maintained in a roadworthy condition" which is the wriggle they use if they find the removed baffle.....or a bald tyre.

I think you will find they have to honur the thrid party part of any clain even if you had no MOT, it just means they will come back after you for any costs from it.

[northwind]

Originally Posted by Dangerous Dave

Unfortunately for the past 5 years that hasn't been true, your insurance quote is taken on the basis your bike is totally OEM unless you state any add on or mod! Failure to inform your insuarnce company to any modification made to your vehicle is a breach of the verbal contract.

Yup, but that's not what I was talking about (why I said "b) you lied to the insurer about the exhaust.".) If you fail to declare a part, that's a problem, since you're specifically required to declare any modifications. (that's not a new thing, it's been around since the birth of modern motor insurance.) But, if you declare the part and they accept the contract then it's irrelevant whether it's legal or not- unless it causes or an accident.

Your example's a bit odd though, why are you claiming on your insurance when it seems like you were the innocent third party? Your declarations should only be relevant when claiming against your own policy. If you're claiming against the other party's, then things are very different legally.

Anyway, in this case- say you fit an exhaust with a removable baffle, and tell the insurance "I've fitted X exhaust". If they ask you if it's road legal and you lie, you're in trouble. If they don't ask, then you're covered. If they ask if it's road legal and you say yes, then remove the baffle, you're in trouble again. It's not just breach of contract, it can be interpreted as insurance fraud.

The usual result is that the insurer doesn't pay out for the modified parts at all- that's a fairly industry standard approach and it's one the FSA back. Very few cases like this go to court, because it's expensive and not very productive in most cases.

The irony is, a slipon is cheaper than an OEM exhaust

Originally Posted by northwind

Your example's a bit odd though, why are you claiming on your insurance when it seems like you were the innocent third party?

Apologies Northy, I mis-read your post!

It was spotted by the vehicle inspector who put it in the report which is seen by both parties. The fact that it wasn't disclosed on my policy made them (other guys insurance) trying to claim my insurance was invalid, this would lead to me being prosecuted for having no insurance despite being the innocent party. What made it all worse was the fact that the brakes had relevance to the accident, a vehicle inspector has to inspect the whole vehicle whether the item(s) he is inspecting is relevant to the accident or not (the inspector has no idea what caused the accident when he attends an inspection, also the same examiner is not allowed to examine both parties vehicles).