Ban electronic aid's?

Fizz, you raise a good point. Some people who have been brought up on powerful bikes with no TC fair better without it - this is nicky haydens case, he likes the bike to be sliding about. Likewise in WSBK, nori haga uses no electronic aids, he dosnt even have the power capped in the lower gears.

Turn to e.g. casey stoner, who couldnt ride the ducati when the electronics where wrong, but a few tweaks later and he;s back to being a dominant force as he can just hammer the throttle open and let the bike sort itself out.

F1 shows that removing the electronics dosn't change the common front runners, but it also showes that when things get a bit slippery, the person with the most sensitive throttle control will shine through. Step forward Mr Hamilton at silverstone.

I see no problem with electronics on bikes - at the end of the day, the rider still has the biggest input - Rossi showed this in 2004 when he won that first race on an inferior M1. The electronics, if anything can make things better as tyre managment is better and we don't get these horrible spectacles of a close race and then one of the people fading off because he ate up his rear tyre.

Matt

I can see a point to it when they were riding the first generation monsters - although didn't the TC only appy in the first 3 gears or summit?

Don't know - when Lorenzo can step "up" from a 250 and proclaim the gp bike easier to ride i reccon it's gone too far. Would have thought how different riders put the power down made it more vairied - TC differences are standard amounts - possibly why the field seems to get strung out more now -

I agree with Lukemillar, MotoGP is about developing the technology and developing a bike to win such that it will help the sales of their product. It's a business at the end of the day. The only exception to this is the privateers who generally are the rich guys who want to race. Fair play to them but they have to rely on the products they can get from their donor manufacturer.

I also agree that the latest electronic aids appear to have sedated the movement of the bikes but the bikes are now going faster and safer. It might not be as 'fun' to watch as in the past but without the electronic aids controlling some aspects of the bike, that bike would not be able to run at the front, thus it would get less airtime, less sponsorship and ultimately have to drop out of comeptition.

If the electronic aids were banned you might see more incidents, slides, crashes etc (crashes are cool to watch when a rider walks away but they are VERY expensive and the law of averages says someone's going to get badly hurt or die once in a while and we don't want that) but without the electronic aids other areas of the bike would not be able to be developed, tyres, engine components, etc so we would not ultimately benefit from those trickling in to production bikes.

I say have no rules apart from engine size and fuel tank size. Leave it at that

Originally Posted by cartwrim

I agree with Lukemillar, MotoGP is about developing the technology and developing a bike to win such that it will help the sales of their product. It's a business at the end of the day. The only exception to this is the privateers who generally are the rich guys who want to race. Fair play to them but they have to rely on the products they can get from their donor manufacturer.

I also agree that the latest electronic aids appear to have sedated the movement of the bikes but the bikes are now going faster and safer. It might not be as 'fun' to watch as in the past but without the electronic aids controlling some aspects of the bike, that bike would not be able to run at the front, thus it would get less airtime, less sponsorship and ultimately have to drop out of comeptition.

If the electronic aids were banned you might see more incidents, slides, crashes etc (crashes are cool to watch when a rider walks away but they are VERY expensive and the law of averages says someone's going to get badly hurt or die once in a while and we don't want that) but without the electronic aids other areas of the bike would not be able to be developed, tyres, engine components, etc so we would not ultimately benefit from those trickling in to production bikes.

I say have no rules apart from engine size and fuel tank size. Leave it at that

The 500's as far as I know had little or no Electronic aids and yes they crashed but then their power came on like a mental thing, its no wonder they high sided. A 4-strokes power (if developed right) should be very progressive and controllable.

As for development without electronics thats complete rubbish. Instead of developing peaky power outputs to make them go fast in a streight line (ducati) they would have to tune the bikes to make power all over and make the power delivery ultra smooth as to not over power the back wheel. This is the sort of tech that road bikes need. Do we need TC... do we knackers. Ive had wheel spin once on my bike which has plently of power and torque and that was due to very wet and poor road surface. So whats the point in developing a system that will only be used in racing? None imo.

As for tyres, they dont need TC. they worked just fine before it. riders back then had to ride tactically as tyre life was a major issue. yes you could thrash it for the first 75% of the race and leave everyone but then for the last 25% of the race you had to nerse it home to the line. Now this isnt a factor in most races so another dimension of the race gone.

If they crash a LOT with out TC then they shouldnt be racing... simple as that.

[fizzwheel]

Originally Posted by cartwrim

I also agree that the latest electronic aids appear to have sedated the movement of the bikes but the bikes are now going faster and safer.

I'm not sure I agree with the Safer aspect. Watching Lorenzo high side himself into orbit as he's put to much faith in the eletronics and beating himself up quite badly isnt a very good thing.

Also how small is the motogp grid getting ? I also think that this may be due to burgeoning costs due to the complex eletronics that are needed to compete at the front.

[fizzwheel]

Originally Posted by ThEGr33k

The 500's as far as I know had little or no Electronic aids

Some of them did, McWililams Proton had a switchable fuel map so that he could change the power delivery when it was dry or wet. He said he was using the switch to control the power delivery in the dry as a rudementary TC system if you like...

Originally Posted by fizzwheel

Some of them did, McWililams Proton had a switchable fuel map so that he could change the power delivery when it was dry or wet. He said he was using the switch to control the power delivery in the dry as a rudementary TC system if you like...

That imo is acceptable. Its brain controlled not computer controlled.

What you said about the grid is so true. I was looking at the 2002 lineup and man there must have been 25+ bikes out there. Electronics cost is so high now its stupid.

Ill give you 3 guesses as to who spend the most money on the electronic wisardry.

To suggest that removal of electronic aid's or specifically traction control would then provide an altogether more baloanced and competitive field is extremely nieve I am afraid.The top performing bikes and riders would remain the same. I can understand some thinking that certain riders are getting more from their machine due to the electronics,but those same guys still have to have the cojones to push the envelope no matter what aids are present. alentino might be actually benefitting right now asdespiute his brillianc he has always made mistakes in races,perhaps he can now get away with them easier? Surel Icannpotbe the only one to notice t6hat there have been more highsides this eason than for a long time and so trasction control is not completely sanitising procedures.

IMHO When you get to the upper echelons of any motorsport, it's not about racing or winning. It's about advertising. It's about the manufacturers saying 'this is what we can do... buy our bikes. Don't gt me wrong, I know that the riders and team staff all care about the racing side of it with a passion. But Mr Suzuki, Mr Kawasaki etc, all sat in their steel and glass towers in Tokyo, are far more interested in units sold. For these gentlemen, the pinnacle of motorstport is a showcase for development. Traction control WILL eventually make it onto road bikes. ThEGr33k says it's unnecessary and will never be of use when riding on the road. Well you could argue the same for cars. I drive in a spirited manner when on an appropriate road but my TC has never kicked in at all. That doesn't stop EVERY car manufacturer using it though. And now they do, the racing teams are dropping it. An example of the race series having done it's job.

When TC is a common feature on road bikes, that's when MotoGP will drop it again.

[fizzwheel]

Originally Posted by ThEGr33k

Ill give you 3 guesses as to who spend the most money on the electronic wisardry.

Would that be Ducati

They're using Ferrari's sytem from F1 are they not ? wander how much they have to pay for the right to use that ?