What was he doing wrong???

[SoulKiss]

Originally Posted by chompy

it seems to that he was toying with the police and wouldnt move along due to the body language. I think its partially his fault for refusing not to move.

Sorry but I refuse to accept that there is any excuse for what was done to him.

Overall from what I have seen on the various Cop Reality Shows, the Police's definition of "Appropriate Force" is somewhat more forceful than mine.

They could have walked up to this guy, one on either side taking an arm and cuffed him if they felt the need to restrain him.

Also where was the follow-up?

The Thug in the Uniform knocked him down then just let him walk away - that smacks of summary punishment, surely the only reason for putting someone on the floor it to then cuff them ready for processing through the system?

[gruntygiggles]

Originally Posted by chompy

it seems to that he was toying with the police and wouldnt move along due to the body language. I think its partially his fault for refusing not to move.

Well, he was on his way home from his job in a newsagents in a nearby street. He has no record or background of taking part in protests that has been found yet and we don't know what could have made him hesitate. I know I wouldn't really know what to do if I had to walk home through that.

[jamesterror]

He hasn't done anything wrong from that video (citizen), you don't get comentary between officer and citizen so don't know what has been said, however the force is well beyond the law's definition of "reasonable force" as there are a hardful of officers there who could have securly detained him..

The law uses "reasonable" and "appropriate" in manners which are hard to justify, its the same with somebody breaking into your house, what would you define "reasonable" or "appropriate" as to somebody who has broken into your property with intent to steal or harm, great system

I'm desperately trying to remember the case, was a while back, couple of folks (both civilians) having some argument over something undoubtedly inconsequential in the grand scheme of things; one participant pushed the other who fell and hit his head hard and died. He was charged with murder.

Police have a hard job, they risk their lives for us. Firemen do the same. If a fireman did that I doubt there'd be much argument about the case for a charge.

I'm fully aware that I'm not in possession of the full facts, from what I've seen my gut feeling is that there is at least enough to warrant a charge of murder and let a court mull over the full facts.

[timwilky]

Originally Posted by chompy

it seems to that he was toying with the police and wouldnt move along due to the body language. I think its partially his fault for refusing not to move.

Perhaps his body language and not "moving along" might have something to do with that fact he did not feel, crushing pain round his chest etc. could have even been about to have a heart attack.

Not moving quick enough, shuffling etc is no excuse to be pushed by a copper with enough force as to bail him over

[gruntygiggles]

Originally Posted by jamesterror

He hasn't done anything wrong from that video (citizen), you don't get comentary between officer and citizen so don't know what has been said, however the force is well beyond the law's definition of "reasonable force" as there are a hardful of officers there who could have securly detained him..

The law uses "reasonable" and "appropriate" in manners which are hard to justify, its the same with somebody breaking into your house, what would you define "reasonable" or "appropriate" as to somebody who has broken into your property with intent to steal or harm, great system

Precisely, why couldn't that officer have asked one of his colleagues to assist him and as SK said, why was he pushed to the floor when the officer did not follow up. Is it normal to just push people to the floor and leave them there? Surely if Ian Tomlinson had provoked anything, with his hands in his pocket he was not posing a physical threat and the officer would have taken action to deal with the provocation, not just pushed and ignored.

Originally Posted by SoulKiss

Also where was the follow-up?

The Thug in the Uniform knocked him down then just let him walk away - that smacks of summary punishment, surely the only reason for putting someone on the floor it to then cuff them ready for processing through the system?

Nail + Head squarely interfaced there SK.

Appropriate force to make an arrest or to protect life and limb - otherwise it's just summary beatings. He could have been swearing the most foul racist obscentities at them and the response would have been to arrest him (undoubtedly with appropriate force) rather than inflict summary violence and move on.

[Luckypants]

Originally Posted by chompy

it seems to that he was toying with the police and wouldnt move along due to the body language. I think its partially his fault for refusing not to move.

What rubbish! Why on earth should he move? The guy has every right to be walking down the street on the way home from his work. The Police cannot just come up and hit you / knock you to the floor with no apparent reason.

From that video there appears to be a case for an assault charge against the officer. If it is shown that the heart attack that killed the victim was as a result of the assault, then a charge of manslaughter should be brought. It is not murder as I have no doubt that the officer did not intend to kill the victim.

Interesting that no CCTV of the incident appears to be available in our 'most watched' country...

[yorkie_chris]

Originally Posted by gruntygiggles

I hope the violent protestors take some responsibility for this mans death. There was no need for the protest to turn into a riot and I feel if it hadn't, the police would not have felt so threatened and defensive.

That was not a riotous mele type scenario there, and even so it's not hard to distinguish between targets. It wasn't like he got an accidental backhand caught up in the middle of a brawl.



If I had legitimately defended myself against an attacker who then staggered 50 yards and died, I am positive that the ever vigilant boys in blue and CPS would take the opportunity to prosecute me for manslaughter or murder.

This copper has done the same without any appearance of provocation, and what looks like any consideration for reasonable force at all. It would not have been too difficult for the what 6 or 7 officers there to have nicked him. I can totally understand officers enjoying a bit of a riot, but attacking someone who just happened to be there? I'm pretty sure it's shiit like this that causes people to watch with amusement videos like that copper a few months ago getting a kicking at a football match.

One law for them, another one for us.

Disturbing. No cause for murder charges though IMHO.

But all those anarchists will now complain about police brutality and one incident - serious as it is - will tarnish the reputation of the police. Generally I think the police did an excellent job in containing ugly scenes.