To anyone thinking of doing CSS...

[21QUEST]

Glad you understand where I'm coming from .

EDIT: Can you type without looking at the keyboard?...you type way too fast for a bloke


Ben

Originally Posted by 21QUEST

Glad you understand where I'm coming from .


Ben

me or him

[21QUEST]

Originally Posted by gid

me or him

That was for the bloke that carried out the dodgy overtake

You are right about the ABS comparison


Ben

Originally Posted by gid

me or him

+1.

I'm guessing you mean me though - last test I did had me in the low 60's words/min. But then I work in IT, and have done most of my life. Anyway, that's a derail!!

Gid, I'd never really given re-application of the brakes much thought before, it was always a "Oh crap release! Crap! Crap!" feeling, until I saw the demo in CSS - hence this thread.

But yes, I suppose locking, releasing then reapplying ASAP is just a slow manual ABS.

EDIT: Dodgy? The only thing that was dodgy about it may of been the speeds involved... *whistles*

Originally Posted by BigApe

I'd suggest going to and getting advanced road riding lessons rather than forking out expensive track lessons. More likely to learn better road craft that way.

I agree

Originally Posted by Baph

.....

I've done BikeSafe, and was told by the IAM examiner that observed me I'd of passed IAM if that was the test I was doing on that observed ride. So IAM doesn't really interest me. RoSPA is planned, but I also think that my road riding would benefit from attending CSS.

Ben, I understood the principal of letting go of the brakes, but not the immediate re-application. I can't think of a single book that mentions about getting straight back on the brake after it's released. CSS had a nice demo of it, which IMO helps immensely as it's harder to dismiss what you've just seen working.

EDIT: Oh, I can't remember any books etc that also mention the handlebars shaking just before/whilst the front locks up - CSS does for definite. It was after a very small shake of the bars that I let go of the lever - I'm not actually 100% sure the front did lock, and if it did it was a very short lock up.

It's commendable that the observer said you would have passed but there is a difference IMO between riding the perfect ride and knowing the theory behind what you are actually doing. I've been chipping away at advanced training for many years now (I have chosen not to take the test so far) purely because I enjoy the conintual learning curve of the theories behind "how to and how not to" and putting them into practice.

With regard to CSS - I would agree any technique learned that obviously helped you is good....but do you learn anything else related to the road there? I do that naturally during braking if necessary on the bike (release and re-apply - as I have done in my (non ABS) cars for 30+ years - my old mum taught me that one!

Originally Posted by ArtyLady

It's commendable that the observer said you would have passed but there is a difference IMO between riding the perfect ride and knowing the theory behind what you are actually doing.

IMO, no ride is perfect - largely due to the fact there's other traffic on the road.

Originally Posted by ArtyLady

do you learn anything else related to the road there?

CSS Level 1 starts with general rider stability, rider input (basic position on the bike, counter-steering etc), throttle control, using engine braking rather than brakes. Level 2 goes on to cover turning point (including where to look - interestingly they make the point of NOT looking at the apex), how to pick up the bike coming out of a bend (allowing harder acceleration or just better stability), constantly tightening bends & what to do, how to climb around on the bike etc.

I consider all of the above as being applicable to the road as well as the track. Granted the application of things like turning point differs (as the track line is different to the road line, but the theory stands regardless of the line you're choosing).

Originally Posted by ArtyLady

I do that naturally during braking if necessary on the bike (release and re-apply - as I have done in my (non ABS) cars for 30+ years - my old mum taught me that one!

Funnily enough, I do exactly that in non-ABS cars too, no idea where I learnt it from.

But I know it was from watching the CSS demo that has armed me with at least the confidence to do it on the bike.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by 21QUEST

but if someone is trying to slow down/stop, the only option left to them, after releasing the brakes due to a lock up is to re-apply the brakes.

But to be fair, the internet is full of comments like "I knew I was gonna bin it so I just leaped off"

[G]

I locked the front up yesterday for the first time ever following binky through ashbourne.

I was in the lane to turn left which was empty and the lane to turn right was full, someone turned right through the the queing traffic right infront of me......locked the front up, released the brake, braked again then the rear end lifted and I managed to stop just in time.

Its the the first time I have ever really thought I was in for it when on the bike.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by Baph

See, I've only met the Squid twice, and I don't think he's said to me about releasing the brake (but then, why should he unless it cropped up in conversation?).

Oh, and I made the corner.

no, but he sais don't crash