Down again

Originally Posted by Red Herring

I'm sorry mate but your post doesn't come across as being written by someone with that much experience. Coming off on the brakes is a serious issue and generally a sign of panic and poor judgement, and you've done it twice, not including the "hardly ever had an off"..... You suggest bad luck, then maybe the tyres, and then finally the design of the bike, but not once do you suggest it might be your mistake and I just felt that ought to be pointed out. If you believe that isn't an option then that's fine, good luck, but if I had failed to anticipate a car moving out on me to such an extent that I had crashed whilst trying to avoid it (twice!) then I wouldn't be looking at the bike for an excuse.

Well I can assure you that riding daily in London traffic for 16 years means that my sense of anticipation for what cars are about to do is very finely honed indeed. I wouldn't have survived if it wasn't.

On both recent occasions, the cars have very suddenly started to change lanes without any indicators or other signs that they were about to manoeuvre. In both cases, the roads were damp, but not really wet. I'm used to being able to brake much harder, in much worse conditions, on the Speed Triple without any problems. I didn't just panic and grab a handful of front brake, even if you've got that idea into your head.

[Stu]

Sounds like riding a Tiger as if it's a motorbike is like driving a 4X4 as if it's a car.

GWS Wyrdness & bike.

Sorry to hear about it wyrdness, glad to know you are ok though.

[Red Herring]

Originally Posted by wyrdness

Well I can assure you that riding daily in London traffic for 16 years means that my sense of anticipation for what cars are about to do is very finely honed indeed. I wouldn't have survived if it wasn't.

On both recent occasions, the cars have very suddenly started to change lanes without any indicators or other signs that they were about to manoeuvre. In both cases, the roads were damp, but not really wet. I'm used to being able to brake much harder, in much worse conditions, on the Speed Triple without any problems. I didn't just panic and grab a handful of front brake, even if you've got that idea into your head.

Sorry to keep harping on here but where were the cars going? I'm happy to start quoting Roadcraft if it helps but other drivers tend to move into spaces, not into other vehicles, so if there is a space alongside a vehicle which you are intending to ride into then it's not unreasonable to expect someone else to do the same, including the very vehicle you are intending to pass, especially if by looking ahead of that vehicle you can see a reason they may want to move.....
The other point I just have to mention is that bikes generally don't slow down very well when sliding along the road on their sides. If you fell off whilst braking to avoid something in front of you how come your bike didn't then hit it after you fell off?

I know by pushing these points I'm going to be considered a smart **** but this isn't a popularity contest. I could try and be "nice" about it but patting you on the back and saying "bad luck mate" isn't going to help you avoid it happening again. Taking an objective view of events just might though. Road surfaces vary considerably, and their grip level even more, especially when damp or wet. Braking close to any limit is always going to take considerable skill and application. Personally I would suggest your time is better spent on avoiding the need to brake hard under such circumstances, rather than trying to manage it when you have to but hey, what do I know. Maybe you just ought to trade in the Tiger whilst it's still worth something....

[Bluepete]

I'm not going to offer riding advice, you have been riding a lot longer than I have.

As for the Tiger, I don't have ABS and haven't had an issue with the OEM tyres since new in May. I have just had Avon Storn Ultra 2's fitted both ends and had a 250 mile ride into Wales and back today. Freezing morning, wet patches, salty smeary bits and not a slip, slide or shimmy once. I can't recommend them enough, to the point where I have asked for a set on my job bike for testing purposes!

Too bad about you offs, glad you are OK and the 'bike isn't too badly damaged.

Pete

[Stu]

Originally Posted by Bluepete

job bike

What tyres do they (loosely) attach to your job bike?

im not a mathamatishionegig but could it have something to do with the height of the bike eg taller thing flip easier than shorter ones, also a possibility is could one of the discs/calipers be "pulling" more than the other therefore pulling the wheel to one side under braking, the only reason i suggest this is your obvious experiance so less likely rider error and if its the brakes that would explain the wheel folding iykwim

[Bluepete]

Originally Posted by Stu

What tyres do they (loosely) attach to your job bike?

I think they are Bridgestone BT020's? Might be wrong though.

Like most things to do with the job, I don't care, so long as I don't have to pay for it!

Pete

Originally Posted by davepreston

im not a mathamatishionegig but could it have something to do with the height of the bike eg taller thing flip easier than shorter ones, also a possibility is could one of the discs/calipers be "pulling" more than the other therefore pulling the wheel to one side under braking, the only reason i suggest this is your obvious experiance so less likely rider error and if its the brakes that would explain the wheel folding iykwim

Imo what someone said earlier in this thread about the longer travel forks makes pefrect sense and is more than likely that.
That said i have endo'd my drz in wet mud off road on road tyres and its suspension is also long travel.

[Red Herring]

Longer travel forks don't prevent you from braking hard, it's just the way you get there. You just have to take a little longer to get to full application so that the forks have time to compress properly.